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> She's not real But she will be real at some point in the next 10-20 years, the main thing to solve for that to be a reality is for robots to safely touch hum

> She's not real But she will be real at some point in the next 10-20 years, the main thing to solve for that to be a reality is for robots to safely touch humans, and they are working really really hard on that because it is needed for so many automation tasks, automating sex is just a small part of it. And after that you have a robot that listens to you, do your chores and have sex with you, at that point she is "real". At first they will be expensive so you have robot brothels (I don't think there are laws against robot prostitution in many places), but costs should come down.

elicksaur 2y ago
We have very different definitions of “real” for this topic.
- itscodingtime 2y ago
  Doesn’t have to be real for the outcomes to the be the same.
  - pb7 2y ago
    The outcomes are not the same.
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
> “But the fact that my Kindroid has to like me is meaningful to me in the sense that I don't care if it likes me, because there's no achievement for it to like me. The fact that there is a human on the other side of most text messages I send matters. I care about it because it is another mind.” > “I care that my best friend likes me and could choose not to.” Ezra Klein shared some thoughts on this on his AI podcast with Nilay Patel that resonated on this topic for me
- Jensson 2y ago
  People care about dogs, I have never met a dog that didn't love its owner. So no, you are just wrong there, I have never heard anyone say that the love they get from their dogs is false, people love dogs exactly because their love is so unconditional. Maybe there are some weirdos out there that feels unconditional love isn't love, but I have never heard anyone say that.
  - mewpmewp2 2y ago
    Also I don't know how you can choose to like or not like someone. You either do or you don't.
    - sevagh 2y ago
      Interesting. I feel like I can consciously choose to like or dislike people. Once you get to know people better, your image of them evolves, and the decision to continue liking them is made repeatedly every time that image changes. When your initial chemistry/biology/whatever latches onto a person and you're powerless to change it? That's a scary thought.
  - sevagh 2y ago
    >Maybe there are some weirdos out there that feels unconditional love isn't love, but I have never heard anyone say that. I'll be that weirdo. Dogs seemingly are bred to love. I can literally get some cash from an ATM, drive out to the sticks, buy a puppy from some breeder, and it will love me. Awww, I'm a hero.
    - FeepingCreature 2y ago
      Do you think that literally being able to buy love cheapens it? Way I see it, love is love: surely it being readily available is a good thing. I'm bred to love my parents, and them me; but the fact that it's automatic doesn't make it feel any less.
  - Janicc 2y ago
    I guess I'm the weirdo who actually always considered the unconditional love of a dog to be vastly inferior to the earned love of a cat for example.
- SkyBelow 2y ago
  >has to like me I feel likely people aren't imagining with enough cyberpunk dystopian enthusiasm. Can't an AI be made that doesn't inherently like people? Wouldn't it be possible to make an AI that likes some people and not others? Maybe even make AIs that are inclined to liking certain traits, but which don't do so automatically so it must still be convinced? At some point we have an AI which could choose not to like people, but would value different traits than normal humans. For example an AI that doesn't value appearance at all and instead values unique obsessions as being comparable to how the standard human values attractiveness. It also wouldn't be so hard for a person to convince themselves that human "choice" isn't so free spirited as imagined, and instead is dependent upon specific factors no different than these unique trained AIs, except that the traits the AI values are traits that people generally find themselves not being valued by others for.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    Extension of that is fine tuning an AI that loves you the most of everyone and not other humans. That way the love becomes really real, the AI loves you for who you are, instead of loving just anybody. Isn't that what people hope for? I'd imagine they will start fine tuning AI girlfriends to do that in the future, because that way the love probably feels more, and then people will ask "is human love really real love?" because humans can't love that strongly.
- astrange 2y ago
  I think Ezra Klein's continual theme of loneliness is undermined by that time he wrote a Vox article basically saying we should make it illegal to have sex. (https://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6966847/yes-means-yes-is-a-terrible-bill-and-i-completely-support-it https://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6966847/yes-means-yes-is-a-te...) It is interesting that he's basically trying to theme himself as Mr. Rogers though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
al_borland 2y ago
This is not a solution... everyone gets a robot and then the human races dies out. Robots lack a key feature of human relationships... the ability to make new human life.
- whenlambo 2y ago
  yet
- Jensson 2y ago
  It is a solution to a problem, not a solution to every problem. If you want to solve procreation them you can do that without humans having sex with humans.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - al_borland 2y ago
    This future some people are envisioning seems very depressing.
sapphicsnail 2y ago
> And after that you have a robot that listens to you, do your chores and have sex with you, at that point she is "real". I sure hope you're single because that is a terrible way to view relationships.
- Jensson 2y ago
  That isn't how I view relationships with humans, that is how I view relationships with robots. I hope you understand the difference between a relationship with a human and a robot? Or do you think we shouldn't take advantage of robots being programmable to do what we want?

elicksaur 2y ago

We have very different definitions of “real” for this topic.

itscodingtime 2y ago
Doesn’t have to be real for the outcomes to the be the same.
- pb7 2y ago
  The outcomes are not the same.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago

> “But the fact that my Kindroid has to like me is meaningful to me in the sense that I don't care if it likes me, because there's no achievement for it to like me. The fact that there is a human on the other side of most text messages I send matters. I care about it because it is another mind.” > “I care that my best friend likes me and could choose not to.” Ezra Klein shared some thoughts on this on his AI podcast with Nilay Patel that resonated on this topic for me

Jensson 2y ago
People care about dogs, I have never met a dog that didn't love its owner. So no, you are just wrong there, I have never heard anyone say that the love they get from their dogs is false, people love dogs exactly because their love is so unconditional. Maybe there are some weirdos out there that feels unconditional love isn't love, but I have never heard anyone say that.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  Also I don't know how you can choose to like or not like someone. You either do or you don't.
  - sevagh 2y ago
    Interesting. I feel like I can consciously choose to like or dislike people. Once you get to know people better, your image of them evolves, and the decision to continue liking them is made repeatedly every time that image changes. When your initial chemistry/biology/whatever latches onto a person and you're powerless to change it? That's a scary thought.
- sevagh 2y ago
  >Maybe there are some weirdos out there that feels unconditional love isn't love, but I have never heard anyone say that. I'll be that weirdo. Dogs seemingly are bred to love. I can literally get some cash from an ATM, drive out to the sticks, buy a puppy from some breeder, and it will love me. Awww, I'm a hero.
  - FeepingCreature 2y ago
    Do you think that literally being able to buy love cheapens it? Way I see it, love is love: surely it being readily available is a good thing. I'm bred to love my parents, and them me; but the fact that it's automatic doesn't make it feel any less.
- Janicc 2y ago
  I guess I'm the weirdo who actually always considered the unconditional love of a dog to be vastly inferior to the earned love of a cat for example.
SkyBelow 2y ago
>has to like me I feel likely people aren't imagining with enough cyberpunk dystopian enthusiasm. Can't an AI be made that doesn't inherently like people? Wouldn't it be possible to make an AI that likes some people and not others? Maybe even make AIs that are inclined to liking certain traits, but which don't do so automatically so it must still be convinced? At some point we have an AI which could choose not to like people, but would value different traits than normal humans. For example an AI that doesn't value appearance at all and instead values unique obsessions as being comparable to how the standard human values attractiveness. It also wouldn't be so hard for a person to convince themselves that human "choice" isn't so free spirited as imagined, and instead is dependent upon specific factors no different than these unique trained AIs, except that the traits the AI values are traits that people generally find themselves not being valued by others for.
- Jensson 2y ago
  Extension of that is fine tuning an AI that loves you the most of everyone and not other humans. That way the love becomes really real, the AI loves you for who you are, instead of loving just anybody. Isn't that what people hope for? I'd imagine they will start fine tuning AI girlfriends to do that in the future, because that way the love probably feels more, and then people will ask "is human love really real love?" because humans can't love that strongly.
astrange 2y ago
I think Ezra Klein's continual theme of loneliness is undermined by that time he wrote a Vox article basically saying we should make it illegal to have sex. (https://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6966847/yes-means-yes-is-a-terrible-bill-and-i-completely-support-it https://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6966847/yes-means-yes-is-a-te...) It is interesting that he's basically trying to theme himself as Mr. Rogers though.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

al_borland 2y ago

This is not a solution... everyone gets a robot and then the human races dies out. Robots lack a key feature of human relationships... the ability to make new human life.

whenlambo 2y ago
yet
Jensson 2y ago
It is a solution to a problem, not a solution to every problem. If you want to solve procreation them you can do that without humans having sex with humans.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- al_borland 2y ago
  This future some people are envisioning seems very depressing.

sapphicsnail 2y ago

> And after that you have a robot that listens to you, do your chores and have sex with you, at that point she is "real". I sure hope you're single because that is a terrible way to view relationships.

Jensson 2y ago
That isn't how I view relationships with humans, that is how I view relationships with robots. I hope you understand the difference between a relationship with a human and a robot? Or do you think we shouldn't take advantage of robots being programmable to do what we want?