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Apple rejected Flattr… and it’s not the end

132 points by LinaLauneBaer 14y ago

recoiledsnake 14y ago
Would the app have been approved if Apple was given 30% of the proceeds? I am guessing yes.
- taligent 14y ago
  Would the app have been approved if they had followed Apple's guidelines? I am guessing yes.
  - duaneb 14y ago
    Isn't that the same thing?
Steqheu 14y ago
I think we DDoS'd them.
- mike-cardwell 14y ago
  https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3A//blog.flattr.net/2012/05/apple-rejected-flattr-but-its-not-the-end/ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3...
- mindbreaker 14y ago
  Or you can try this: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.flattr.net/2012/05/apple-rejected-flattr-but-its-not-the-end/&hl=de&prmd=imvns&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...
- bananaoomarang 14y ago
  Yup.
- karl_nerd 14y ago
  considered brokep from the pirate bay is heavily involved in flattr, i'm a little bit disappointed the site went down
  - chinmoy 14y ago
    That is the exact thing that crossed my mind. brokep Peter Sunde is not only heavily involved, he is the founder.
  - Siimteller 14y ago
    He did show up to nurse the crashed server back to life :)
LinaLauneBaer 14y ago
Here is a copy (as PDF) of the article in case you can't access the site: http://christian-kienle.de/ShinyVideo/Flattr.pdf http://christian-kienle.de/ShinyVideo/Flattr.pdf
bangbang 14y ago
I hope they planned for this. Hinging an entire business on the decision of a 3rd party is Russian roulette.
- redslazer 14y ago
  They already have a relatively successful business. This rejection just removes one of their possible revenue streams and nothing more.
- sirclueless 14y ago
  Flattr is fundamentally a web company, competing with Google's +1 button and Facebook's Like button more than than Paypal donations, even if users are spending real money. This is just a potential new arena for Flattr, and not their core business.
jmonegro 14y ago
In this case, where donations would happen with one tap, I think it is sensible for Apple to require breaking the UX so as to avoid unintended donations by the users, or malicious implementation by the developers.
- sch1zo 14y ago
  I think you should look at how flattr works. You set a fixed amount of money each month which then gets slit up between all things you choose to support that month.
  - robmcm 14y ago
    You could still have the jump button on a game hooked up to flattr your app, taking more of the users monies. It's a valid point.
    - sch1zo 14y ago
      IIRC the app developers already get part of the 10% fee flattr takes as they are somehow the referer of the "flattr-clicks". And if the app developer unknowningly flattrs the app for the user, the user could immediately see that on his flattr dashboard and inform flattr about the scammer.
- bilbo0s 14y ago
  I'm not very big on Apple practices, but I have to agree with you here. This seems like the sort of tool that can be used to do some really shady things. Which, in and of itself, is not a problem. The thing is, when money 'goes missing' from user accounts, they tend to blame either Apple or the App company as opposed to themselves for not paying attention to what they were doing. Apple has been burned in the media by things like that before. IE - Kids racking up thousands of dollars of purchases because mom authorized one, and then let the kid go play on her ipad. In this case, this seems reasonable. Unless I'm missing something, this is not the sort of thing you want being easy for novice users.
  - 14y ago
DanI-S 14y ago
> We understand that directing your user outside of your app may not be the user experience you prefer to offer your users. However it is a common experience in a variety of iOS apps. That doesn't seem like the kind of uncompromising approach to fantastic user experience that has made Apple so successful.
- ge0rg 14y ago
  Except that exactly this approach is going to make Apple more successful if Apple apps are the only ones allowed to have uncompromised UX.
  - Dove 14y ago
    You know, I feel like iOS and Android are recapitulating the Mac and PC wars of the '90s. Not exactly, mind you, but it feels like the same struggle between niche beauty and popular pragmatism. Between a controlled experience with a unifying vision, and plug-and-play user freedom. One major difference is that iOS enjoys an advantage in apps that Mac never had in software. I think that could change, though. There is a positive feedback loop in which the most popular platform attracts developers and hence has the most software and so people buy that platform. I don't perceive that system to be in a stable state at the moment, much like it wasn't in, say, '88. People routinely develop for both platforms. And who knows, perhaps that will be the steady state answer this time; we're a lot better at abstraction than we used to be. But I think it's possible that Android could become popular enough (and perhaps Apple drive enough developers away), that the whole thing could pass a tipping point. What I'm saying is, I don't think the beauty of the apps is the most powerful force in play here. I think the existence of apps is a lot more powerful. At least, that's what I think happened last time beauty fought pragmatism.
    - sad_panda 14y ago
      Starting with Windows 95, Windows had an objective advantage over Macintosh. The operating system supported preemptive multitasking, the hardware was considerably more powerful, and the software base was huge. With iOS vs. Android, from the consumer's perspective, the differences are really subtle. The major issue at hand with developer freedom is hidden from view for most people.
mgkimsal 14y ago
"We understand that directing your user outside of your app may not be the user experience you prefer to offer your users. However it is a common experience in a variety of iOS apps." So... it's crappy for everyone across the board. Take comfort in that!
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  Except for apps that pay 30% to Apple. That's a key distinction.
glimcat 14y ago
My big unanswered question going into the article was "What the crud is Flattr and why should I care." Starting your posts off with a brief introduction of who you are is often a good idea. Flattr is a micropayment system. You pay them a monthly subscription, then Like(tm) a bunch of stuff on the internet. They split up whatever portion of your monthly sub that they don't keep among the places you tag. Apple presumably flagged the app which integrated Flattr due to their well-known policies about in-app payments.
- CookWithMe 14y ago
  > Starting your posts off with a brief introduction of who you are is often a good idea. IF most of your readers don't know what you are doing. I think this was written for their community (not HN), so most of them know what Flattr is about. Also, they have "About Flattr" in the footer - not very prominently placed, but still find-able.
  - lukifer 14y ago
    It isn't just Flattr: I encounter this issue regularly when being linked to startup blogs. Having one sentence or one link on every page that succinctly describes what you do just seems like a good idea. The web is made for linking, and not everybody will walk through the front door.
- Siimteller 14y ago
  Good point, added to the beginning of the post.
  - jazzychad 14y ago
    Also please add a link to your homepage somewhere in the blog's header. Too many company blogs omit this most important link!
stuartmemo 14y ago
We shouldn't be surprised anymore. Yet people will continue to bend over backwards for Apple. I hate the fact that the App Store has stunted the growth of mobile web apps.
radimm 14y ago
Rejected by Apple and the 'Paypal suxx' on their desk. Tough luck
sparknlaunch12 14y ago
Unlucky you have been curtailed by Apple for now but sure you can rework your model to fit within what is allowable. Keep persevering as you seem to have built a useful application.
- Siimteller 14y ago
  Thanks, as said in the post - we’ll keep at it as the only way to find out what’s cool with Apple and what’s not is to submit stuff to them and hope to have a constructive dialog.
jcmhn 14y ago
I think we can safely say Apple has dropped their party manners and shown the knives. Unfortunately android is the only possible competitor I see, and the carriers have pretty much guaranteed that android won't be any freer for users or developers.
tzs 14y ago
OT design suggestion: when you have a corporate blog, have a prominent link somewhere on the top that goes to your main site.
rmATinnovafy 14y ago
I'll wait this one out to see if the issue snowballs. Either way, this could turn out to be a positive PR tactic. God luck to the flattr team.

132 points by LinaLauneBaer 14y ago

recoiledsnake 14y ago

Would the app have been approved if Apple was given 30% of the proceeds? I am guessing yes.

taligent 14y ago
Would the app have been approved if they had followed Apple's guidelines? I am guessing yes.
- duaneb 14y ago
  Isn't that the same thing?

Steqheu 14y ago

I think we DDoS'd them.

mike-cardwell 14y ago
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3A//blog.flattr.net/2012/05/apple-rejected-flattr-but-its-not-the-end/ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3...
mindbreaker 14y ago
Or you can try this: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.flattr.net/2012/05/apple-rejected-flattr-but-its-not-the-end/&hl=de&prmd=imvns&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...
bananaoomarang 14y ago
Yup.
karl_nerd 14y ago
considered brokep from the pirate bay is heavily involved in flattr, i'm a little bit disappointed the site went down
- chinmoy 14y ago
  That is the exact thing that crossed my mind. brokep Peter Sunde is not only heavily involved, he is the founder.
- Siimteller 14y ago
  He did show up to nurse the crashed server back to life :)

LinaLauneBaer 14y ago

Here is a copy (as PDF) of the article in case you can't access the site: http://christian-kienle.de/ShinyVideo/Flattr.pdf http://christian-kienle.de/ShinyVideo/Flattr.pdf

bangbang 14y ago

I hope they planned for this. Hinging an entire business on the decision of a 3rd party is Russian roulette.

redslazer 14y ago
They already have a relatively successful business. This rejection just removes one of their possible revenue streams and nothing more.
sirclueless 14y ago
Flattr is fundamentally a web company, competing with Google's +1 button and Facebook's Like button more than than Paypal donations, even if users are spending real money. This is just a potential new arena for Flattr, and not their core business.

jmonegro 14y ago

In this case, where donations would happen with one tap, I think it is sensible for Apple to require breaking the UX so as to avoid unintended donations by the users, or malicious implementation by the developers.

sch1zo 14y ago
I think you should look at how flattr works. You set a fixed amount of money each month which then gets slit up between all things you choose to support that month.
- robmcm 14y ago
  You could still have the jump button on a game hooked up to flattr your app, taking more of the users monies. It's a valid point.
  - sch1zo 14y ago
    IIRC the app developers already get part of the 10% fee flattr takes as they are somehow the referer of the "flattr-clicks". And if the app developer unknowningly flattrs the app for the user, the user could immediately see that on his flattr dashboard and inform flattr about the scammer.
bilbo0s 14y ago
I'm not very big on Apple practices, but I have to agree with you here. This seems like the sort of tool that can be used to do some really shady things. Which, in and of itself, is not a problem. The thing is, when money 'goes missing' from user accounts, they tend to blame either Apple or the App company as opposed to themselves for not paying attention to what they were doing. Apple has been burned in the media by things like that before. IE - Kids racking up thousands of dollars of purchases because mom authorized one, and then let the kid go play on her ipad. In this case, this seems reasonable. Unless I'm missing something, this is not the sort of thing you want being easy for novice users.
- 14y ago

DanI-S 14y ago

> We understand that directing your user outside of your app may not be the user experience you prefer to offer your users. However it is a common experience in a variety of iOS apps. That doesn't seem like the kind of uncompromising approach to fantastic user experience that has made Apple so successful.

ge0rg 14y ago
Except that exactly this approach is going to make Apple more successful if Apple apps are the only ones allowed to have uncompromised UX.
- Dove 14y ago
  You know, I feel like iOS and Android are recapitulating the Mac and PC wars of the '90s. Not exactly, mind you, but it feels like the same struggle between niche beauty and popular pragmatism. Between a controlled experience with a unifying vision, and plug-and-play user freedom. One major difference is that iOS enjoys an advantage in apps that Mac never had in software. I think that could change, though. There is a positive feedback loop in which the most popular platform attracts developers and hence has the most software and so people buy that platform. I don't perceive that system to be in a stable state at the moment, much like it wasn't in, say, '88. People routinely develop for both platforms. And who knows, perhaps that will be the steady state answer this time; we're a lot better at abstraction than we used to be. But I think it's possible that Android could become popular enough (and perhaps Apple drive enough developers away), that the whole thing could pass a tipping point. What I'm saying is, I don't think the beauty of the apps is the most powerful force in play here. I think the existence of apps is a lot more powerful. At least, that's what I think happened last time beauty fought pragmatism.
  - sad_panda 14y ago
    Starting with Windows 95, Windows had an objective advantage over Macintosh. The operating system supported preemptive multitasking, the hardware was considerably more powerful, and the software base was huge. With iOS vs. Android, from the consumer's perspective, the differences are really subtle. The major issue at hand with developer freedom is hidden from view for most people.

mgkimsal 14y ago

"We understand that directing your user outside of your app may not be the user experience you prefer to offer your users. However it is a common experience in a variety of iOS apps." So... it's crappy for everyone across the board. Take comfort in that!

recoiledsnake 14y ago
Except for apps that pay 30% to Apple. That's a key distinction.

glimcat 14y ago

My big unanswered question going into the article was "What the crud is Flattr and why should I care." Starting your posts off with a brief introduction of who you are is often a good idea. Flattr is a micropayment system. You pay them a monthly subscription, then Like(tm) a bunch of stuff on the internet. They split up whatever portion of your monthly sub that they don't keep among the places you tag. Apple presumably flagged the app which integrated Flattr due to their well-known policies about in-app payments.

CookWithMe 14y ago
> Starting your posts off with a brief introduction of who you are is often a good idea. IF most of your readers don't know what you are doing. I think this was written for their community (not HN), so most of them know what Flattr is about. Also, they have "About Flattr" in the footer - not very prominently placed, but still find-able.
- lukifer 14y ago
  It isn't just Flattr: I encounter this issue regularly when being linked to startup blogs. Having one sentence or one link on every page that succinctly describes what you do just seems like a good idea. The web is made for linking, and not everybody will walk through the front door.
Siimteller 14y ago
Good point, added to the beginning of the post.
- jazzychad 14y ago
  Also please add a link to your homepage somewhere in the blog's header. Too many company blogs omit this most important link!

stuartmemo 14y ago

We shouldn't be surprised anymore. Yet people will continue to bend over backwards for Apple. I hate the fact that the App Store has stunted the growth of mobile web apps.

radimm 14y ago

Rejected by Apple and the 'Paypal suxx' on their desk. Tough luck

sparknlaunch12 14y ago

Unlucky you have been curtailed by Apple for now but sure you can rework your model to fit within what is allowable. Keep persevering as you seem to have built a useful application.

Siimteller 14y ago
Thanks, as said in the post - we’ll keep at it as the only way to find out what’s cool with Apple and what’s not is to submit stuff to them and hope to have a constructive dialog.

jcmhn 14y ago

I think we can safely say Apple has dropped their party manners and shown the knives. Unfortunately android is the only possible competitor I see, and the carriers have pretty much guaranteed that android won't be any freer for users or developers.

tzs 14y ago

OT design suggestion: when you have a corporate blog, have a prominent link somewhere on the top that goes to your main site.

rmATinnovafy 14y ago

I'll wait this one out to see if the issue snowballs. Either way, this could turn out to be a positive PR tactic. God luck to the flattr team.