6 ms·
Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]
- resource_waste 2y agoMercedes? Pick an easier competition? As much as European cars have a favorable reputation among American consumers: They are awful! If you do benchmarking, you are going to find European cars have lots of appearance parts that are high quality, but the actual components are poor. A more realistic comparison would be to compare Tesla vs Ford or GM. These are 3 companies that have similar tech/culture standards. This video is like comparing AMD to Apple.
- tentacleuno 2y ago> This video is like comparing AMD to Apple. What do you mean by this?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ethagknight 2y agoHad you watched the video before commenting, you would know the point of the video is that Consumer Reports gave Mercedes self driving a much higher rating than Tesla. Video shows how awful the Mercedes software really is
- jfoster 2y agoConsumer Reports must have done similar tests to what is seen in the video (eg. just driving with these systems), yet they came out with the result that they did. What happened there?
- alphabettsy 2y agoIt seems the video is comparing a different Mercedes driver assist system to FSD?
- LordOfWolves 2y agoMercedes is the first company to sell vehicles with SAE Level 3 Autonomous Driving enabled in the United States [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40098468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40098468
- wrboyce 2y agoNice cherry picking, I occasionally see a (ridiculously oversized) Chevrolet (Corvettes I think) on the road here in Britain and the build quality is utter shite, not to mention how fugly they are but I suppose that is subjective. How many McLaren, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, etc equivalents does America produce? Beyond most of those examples there is good reason “German Engineering” is an oft-repeated phrase. See, I can cherry pick too (Europe also produce Fiats, lol, “fix it again tomorrow”). EDIT: and tbh I don’t even agree with your cherry picked example either, every Tesla I’ve been in has had terrible build quality and been a horrible ride.
- resource_waste 2y ago[flagged]
- andrewmcwatters 2y agoSame deal with openpilot. Comma team claims they’re “solving self-driving cars” anytime people mention perception improvements or quality of ride concerns. openpilot basically can’t turn at intersections anymore.
- facialwipe 2y agoTesla has spent more billions on ML than any corporation in the world. I can’t wait to book my first FSD robotaxi ride at some point in the next decade.
- Larrikin 2y agoYou can book a robotaxi now with Waymo. Tesla has been promising that for years. Tesla may have been first to seriously try but currently there's no evidence they will be first in anything compared to their competitors.
- throwaway11460 2y agoTesla promised to make your own car a robotaxi, which is very different from stringently controlled Waymo cars. Tesla has to deal with customers doing stupid shit with their cars.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lopkeny12ko 2y agoPeople who make the Waymo argument fundamentally do not get it. Waymo works because they have mapped out cities with maps and millimeter precision 3D scans. It only works in places with good weather. The rules of the road are hardcoded in millions of lines of fragile code. To top it all off, they are basically driven entirely by remote operators. FSD works anywhere and doesn't rely on millions of dollars worth of equipment and pre-mapped environments. Tesla's technology is scalable in a way that Waymo never will be. You can buy a Tesla with FSD today for less than 50k. Google will eventually realize that Waymo is burning cash with no path to recovery, and shut it down just like every other Google product.
- Almondsetat 2y agoDoesn't Mercedes guarantee level 3 only on certain stretches of road? Shouldn't a better comparison take place there?
- ajross 2y agoNot just the road. Drive Pilot is a radar based following technology. It won't drive on open roads at all, it can only follow a car in front of you that it has affirmatively detected on radar (the point being to eliminate the false positives that radar is known for). If it changes lanes or gets too far ahead the system will disengage. Likewise there's a speed limit of 60kph or somesuch, etc... It's mostly a stunt, basically. It's an answer to "What's the fastest path to SAE Level 3 in any context", not "How to engineer an autonomous driving solution?"
- llamaimperative 2y agoUhh no, it’s called good engineering versus over-ambitious marketing. Systems are designed for specific operational design domains and they are expected not to work outside of the ODD. The key thing is that the operator needs to understand what the ODD is and whether they’re inside or outside of it. Mercedes has a very clear ODD with very clear guarantees inside of it. Tesla does not have any established ODD nor any guaranteed performance inside of it. Mercedes is incrementally improving a system the exact way you’re supposed to engineer such a system. It is not an abuse of the SAE Levels framework, it is exactly why the levels are what they are! It is Tesla that is pulling off stunts.
- anonporridge 2y agoIsn't the premise of this video of the Consumer Reports comparison a bit of red herring? It seems like Consumer Reports is comparing Mercedes Driver Assistance with Tesla Autopilot and then the video goes on to compare it to Tesla FSD. Obviously, the average person doesn't know there's a difference and may be misinformed by CR to believe that Tesla sucks, but we can acknowledge here that Tesla Autopilot is very meh compared to FSD, and it's entirely feasible that Mercedes has a justified better rating between these systems, even if FSD is light years ahead.
- throwaway11460 2y agoWell either way, with all the articles about Mercedes having the first Lwhatever self driving system, you would think it's actually better than the FSD.
- mg 2y agoUnless there is a change in how autonomous driving software is trained, it seems Tesla is destined to dominate that market, right? Tesla has the most training data consisting of video input + corresponding driver behavior. And they have the most compute power. Which twist of fate could happen, so that Tesla falls behind in the future? I could imagine that there is an invention which lets AI learn about the world by just observing and thinking. Without the need for "training" in the form of "if you see this, do this". But as far as I know, this is not on the horizon yet.
- 7sidedmarble 2y agoThat visual sensors only seem like they make no sense when they can get obstructed by weather
- mavhc 2y agoThe main cameras are behind the windscreen, so cleaned by the wipers
- redwood 2y agoI don't get this perspective. Somehow humans drive with visual input
- snakeyjake 2y agoThe goal is to be better than, not equivalent to, humans-- right? I work on a synthetic aperture radar system that is high-resolution enough to "see" the painted stripes on roads through fog and a thin layer of snow. It's not for automotive use and would increase the price of every car by several hundred thousand dollars but a fusion of multi-spectrum sensors should be the direction we are headed-- not a minimally-viable mono-sensor system.
- andix 2y agoIts enough to be as good as a responsible human driver, but consistently. The AI is never going to be tired, distracted, angry, drunk, and so on. Drivers not bringing their A-game is probably the most common reason for accidents.
- cs702 2y agoBy many accounts, Tesla FSD has improved rapidly, now feels "very human," and will soon have greater adoption than any other self-driving software.[a] Speaking from personal experience, I've tested the most recent version of Supervised FSD, v12.3.6, and it's much better than most people realize. Once Tesla stops requiring human supervision, I expect FSD adoption rate to go "hockey-stick." --- [a] Based on a conversion rate for Tesla "Supervised FSD" free trials of ~2%: https://old.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1cp5pgj/tsla_fsd_free_trial_conversion_reached_2_for_all/ https://old.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1cp5pgj/tsla_fsd...
- redwood 2y agoYes it's way beyond what most people realize now
- jaybeavers 2y agoI took. my wife’s Model X out for a moderately complicated drive last night and was very pleasantly surprised by the new FSD behavior. Very significantly improved over the last few updates.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- accrual 2y agoI was surprised to see so many driver interventions on the Mercedes side - 44 vs 0 by the end of the 20 minute video. Maybe that's why it's branded "Driver Assist" and not FSD, so not a true comparison. Also, a little funny to see a random Model Y appear just ahead of the Mercedes at the end of the video.
- dawnerd 2y agoIt’s hard to tell but looks like a lot of those interventions were just him accidentally taking it out because he was keeping his hands off. And because of his bias and comfort with FSD would let the Tesla get away with more.
- cwillu 2y agoI didn't watch through the whole thing, but the first 12 interventions were definitely valid interventions: “we're drifting again, oh, we're on the yellow line again”, etc
- CorrectHorseBat 2y agoAnd yet speed limit detection and phantom breaking in my Tesla has only gotten worse the last year, or do FSD improvements not trickle down to non-FSD?
- misiti3780 2y agoI dont think they do, i have not had a phantom break since 12.x came out.
- lopkeny12ko 2y agoIt's disingenuous to make this kind of claim without stating what version you are using.
- CorrectHorseBat 2y agoLatest stable version I can get, v11.1 apparently
- demondemidi 2y agoHow do Mercedes and Tesla differ in terms of accountability when there is inevitably an accident? Tesla is known for turning off their assistance at the last possible moment in order to blame the driver. Mercedes assumes liability. Seems like that is the real debate. Tesla weasels and whines, Mercedes steps up.
- kibwen 2y agoYes, this is the beginning and ending of the conversation. If Tesla (or any other manufacturer) actually has faith in their implementation, they will accept legal liability for its actions. Contrapositively, if Tesla (or any other manufacturer) do not accept legal liability for the actions of their autopilot, then they don't have faith in its implementation. Everything else is irrelevant snake-oil marketing fluff. Put your money where your mouth is.
- hnuser0000 2y agoThe user that created that video is known to have preference for Tesla (based on Twitter posts and their YouTube channel is all about Tesla), the video may be biased. The Consumer Reports comparison at the beginning of the video is Mercedes "Driver Assistance" vs Tesla "Autopilot". These are technologies for lane assistance, speed limit assistance, etc. "Advanced cruise control" is a better term for these. This video does not compare these. Mercedes self driving system is called "Drive Pilot". Tesla's is called "FSD" (Full Self Driving) This video compares FSD to Drive Assist, these are two different types of technologies.
- rainsford 2y agoI definitely trust Consumer Reports more than whoever these randos are, particularly because it was pretty easy to see the pro-Tesla bias from the beginning even without being familiar with their other content. And I would think anyone would have alarm bells going off given the unbelievable 44 interventions to zero interventions result.
- nebula8804 2y ago>The user that created that video is known to have preference for Tesla (based on Twitter posts and their YouTube is all about Tesla), the video may be biased. You are really understating this. This account is one of the few accounts that Elon directly responds to on a regular basis on X.
- redwood 2y agoI was blown away recently by the sophistication of Tesla self-driving when I visited the bay area.. the one mistake it made was missing the correct path within SFO to drop me off at the correct terminal... that was a surprising mistake and I didn't have time to see if it would circle around and get it right this second time
- benterix 2y agoTo quote one of the commenters: > 2. They were using an non-geofenced level 2 highway adaptive cruise system for Mercedes, NOT the level 3 system which is only available in Germany. The level 2 system was never designed for city streets and have limitations on sharp turns, if this would an honest video they would compare autopilot vs drive pilot on the highway, which they won't do because drive pilot is better.
- alsodumb 2y agoI'm sorry, how come the level 3 system is only available in Germany and yet Mercedes gets to claim it as the first certified level 3 system available in US market? https://media.mbusa.com/releases/automated-driving-revolution-mercedes-benz-announces-us-availability-of-drive-pilot-the-worlds-first-certified-sae-level-3-system-for-the-us-market https://media.mbusa.com/releases/automated-driving-revolutio...
- ethbr1 2y ago>> The production-ready version of DRIVE PILOT will make its on-road debut in California and Nevada in late 2023 with a limited fleet of Level 3 equipped EQS Sedans >> Mercedes-Benz plans for further customer deliveries of DRIVE PILOT equipped MY2024 EQS Sedan and S-Class models in early 2024 through participating authorized Mercedes-Benz dealers in California and Nevada
- this_steve_j 2y agoSince Mercedes Drive Assist is SAE Level 2 and supported only on highways, the high number of interventions is a feature and not a bug. The Mercedes driver seemed to be engaged and attentive, and therefore not likely to play a video game, watch a movie, and stop paying attention causing a crash. It would be interesting to see Mercedes Drive Pilot (SAE Level 3) compared to Tesla FSD. That feature is not generally available in the US.
- this_steve_j 2y agoWatching this video, I am impressed by how well FSD works! Watching FSD crash videos, though, I am reminded by the many spectacular failure modes of SAE Level <4 driving systems on public roads. The NHTSA reported in April that most fatal FSD crashes involved no driver intervention, or driver intervention only in the last 1 second, and in all cases an attentive driver could have perceived and taken steps to lessen the severity of damage and injuries in the crash. For anything less than SAE Level 4, the human MUST take over driving when requested. The question is, can we? Sign up for the beta test and find out, I guess! Personally I would much prefer a new Mercedes E class wagon with Driver Assist (Distronic) to a Tesla with FSD.
- binary132 2y agoFrankly, I do not see a justification for this technology at this point. Sure it’s good but nothing is really comparable to an attentive operator when even one multi-thousand pound hunk of deadly steel is hurtling down the road, let alone hundreds and thousands, and lives at stake. It simply is madness.
- FeloniousHam 2y ago> Frankly, I do not see a justification for this technology at this point. Drunks and the drowsy. Sure, they should have called an Uber or chosen not to drive at all. But the road is safer for having that multi-thousand pound hunk of steel steered by a more competent and attentive driver (FSD)
- micah94 2y agoSurely this is sarcasm. You'd prefer a drunk person getting into a Tesla with FSD vs. an attentive and alert person driving (anything else)? I'm sorry but being drunk and getting behind the wheel, that's an automatic fail. I don't care what you're driving. You shouldn't be behind that wheel in a position of responsibility when you are under the influence. I include 'thinking the Tesla will just handle it' as under the influence.
- tantalor 2y agoApples vs oranges