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Of course society should become more accepting and accommodating of differently-abled people of all types. But can you really look at the extreme end of the Aut

Of course society should become more accepting and accommodating of differently-abled people of all types. But can you really look at the extreme end of the Autism spectrum and say that isn't a disease or disorder? One reason we need this fundamental research is to disentangle the different types of afflictions and give them different names.

thompsonhh 2y ago
[dead]
MajimasEyepatch 2y ago
You don’t even have to go to the extreme end. Ask people with milder presentations, and they’ll be able to tell you about all sorts of confusing interactions and frustrating situations they’ve experienced that wouldn’t have happened if they were neurotypical. Hard to say that doesn’t impact their quality of life.
- pseudalopex 2y ago
  Those experiences wouldn't have happened if the autistic people were medicated to neurotypical or neurotypical people were more accepting of autistic people. And many autistic people would reject being medicated to neurotypical despite those experiences.
- ModernMech 2y ago
  It's true, miscommunication and misunderstanding, as well as stigmatization can lead to situations where autistic people are hurt or even killed. This happened recently with Ryan Gainer, who was killed by police after he charged at them with a gardening tool during an autistic meltdown. But as you said, we should ask people with milder presentations, and listen. While they may impact quality of life, I don't see any autistic people here or in my communities calling for a "cure" to deal with such problems. We made a big deal of Autism Acceptance and Awareness Month, which was April. There is no autism prevention movement, unless you count Autism Speaks, which is considered a hate group within the autistic community.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > I don't see any autistic people here or in my communities calling for a "cure" to deal with such problems. Then you should step a bit outside of your bubble. It's very common in the autistic community - and the neurodivergent community at large.
    - wizzwizz4 2y ago
      Which "autistic community" are you talking about? Do you mean "parents of" Facebook groups?
      - squigz 2y ago
        Obviously I'm a spokesman for Autism Speaks.
        ModernMech 2y ago
        I agree, I'm always happy to step out my bubble. That's why I'm here on HN -- this is not a safe place for autistic people. That said, it was not obvious to me you are a spokesperson for Autism Speaks.
        selimthegrim 2y ago
        I believe their tongue is firmly planted in their cheek.
        yareal 2y ago
        Pretty sure the person you are responding to is just being an asshole, inadvertently demonstrating your point that this isn't a safe place for autistic people.
        squigz 2y ago
        I was only responding in kind. And I'm autistic myself, so. Honestly, the only hostility toward austitic people I see around here is the person invalidating and ignoring the opinions of others within the autistic community.
- mewpmewp2 2y ago
  > You don’t even have to go to the extreme end. Ask people with milder presentations, and they’ll be able to tell you about all sorts of confusing interactions and frustrating situations they’ve experienced that wouldn’t have happened if they were neurotypical. Hard to say that doesn’t impact their quality of life. Sure, I had rough childhood, but looking back, I wouldn't want to be someone else. The way my brain focuses and optimises for certain ideas actually benefits society if the environment is correct. There's only limited amount of processing power anyone can have. I just have less points for social and more for other areas that others don't have. Yet society expects us to normalize or consider it a disease. I'm now very successful and extremely proud where I have reached in life. In my childhood I used to question why people didn't like me, if I had myself from now to guide myself, and create an environment for myself, I'm sure I would have had 100% happy childhood. And I know what and how to do if I ever had someone like myself as a kid, and it's not a disease. The reason my childhood was terrible was EXACTLY because of expectation that everyone should behave like X, and that was just not me. So everyone tells me I have disease that needs to be fixed. It's disgusting. I didn't finish high school because of all the issues I had, and spent years in depression, but as I happened to finally land in an environment that appreciated my differing thinking I was able to do exactly what my brain is suited for and make 8x+ average income in my area. I had passion as a kid, interest in weird things, but school and the social environment killed every little bit of it.
  - WA 2y ago
    > I had passion as a kid, interest in weird things, but school and the social environment killed every little bit of it. As a parent of an autistic kid: How would you cultivate that? Our son is autistic, he is 8 years old. He started to hate school. All he cares for is Minecraft and Magic: The Gathering. It's a bit sad to see that he seemingly drowns his curiosity by immersing himself mentally only in these two topics. I wonder if there's a way to guide him to develop interest in other topics. Any recommendations?
    - imtringued 2y ago
      Make him play a Minecraft mod pack like Nomifactory or Gregtech horizons and an economic simulation game like prosperous universe. Use that as a stepping stone to increase his interest in architecture, computer science, mechanical engineering, chemistry or aerospace. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jYSfDcbY0w0&pp=ygULbm9taWZhY3Rvcnk%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jYSfDcbY0w0&pp=ygULbm9taWZhY3R...
- yareal 2y ago
  Why is that the autistic person's problem? I'm autistic, I broadly agree that eliminating autism is a negative for individuals and for society. Maybe the difficulties are things we should address as a society, rather than seeking to eliminate a class of people.
faeriechangling 2y ago
I can. When I look at extremely functional autistics like Elon Musk, the idea he has a condition which makes him diseased and disordered is absurd. I think the natural reaction to that is that either diagnostic criteria should be narrowed and/or it should be possible for people to lose their diagnosis if they achieve Elon Musk levels of functioning. -OR- Autism should be viewed more neutrally, as people of a certain type who are more susceptible to disease or disorders but to not necessarily have them.
- ModernMech 2y ago
  Elon Musk is highly functional but he also has a wide and deep support network unlike most other autistic people. He self immolates all the time and he's propped up by his great wealth. He self medicates with drugs. He has a team of people who handle his every need. When normal autistic people self immolate as such, they are cast from society forever - fired, locked up, abandoned, or even killed. And just because someone is high functioning today, it doesn't mean they will always be or always have been.
  - faeriechangling 2y ago
    Yet he functions well in niche circumstances, and he's currently in said circumstances and functioning. Not only that, most people would not be able to function as well as Musk in Musk's shoes. Also, the absurdity isn't really Musk in a vacuum, it's him being in the same basket as people who can't complete any activities of daily living. He might actually be more similar to quite a few people with ADHD than quite a few people with level 3 autism. It's very strange and incoherent even. This is, by the way, all a result of what a mess of a taxonomy the DSM and ICD are.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    Not only that, consider the societal advantage of this behavior. Many social rules are wrong and group-level maladaptive. Having a subset of the population that doesn't adhere to those rules benefits society by allowing it to break out of local maxima. It's not a tendency we should suppress. Punishing people for non-conformity is the act of a villain. And yet we do, so that only people with wealth can survive doing it.

thompsonhh 2y ago

[dead]

MajimasEyepatch 2y ago

You don’t even have to go to the extreme end. Ask people with milder presentations, and they’ll be able to tell you about all sorts of confusing interactions and frustrating situations they’ve experienced that wouldn’t have happened if they were neurotypical. Hard to say that doesn’t impact their quality of life.

pseudalopex 2y ago
Those experiences wouldn't have happened if the autistic people were medicated to neurotypical or neurotypical people were more accepting of autistic people. And many autistic people would reject being medicated to neurotypical despite those experiences.
ModernMech 2y ago
It's true, miscommunication and misunderstanding, as well as stigmatization can lead to situations where autistic people are hurt or even killed. This happened recently with Ryan Gainer, who was killed by police after he charged at them with a gardening tool during an autistic meltdown. But as you said, we should ask people with milder presentations, and listen. While they may impact quality of life, I don't see any autistic people here or in my communities calling for a "cure" to deal with such problems. We made a big deal of Autism Acceptance and Awareness Month, which was April. There is no autism prevention movement, unless you count Autism Speaks, which is considered a hate group within the autistic community.
- squigz 2y ago
  > I don't see any autistic people here or in my communities calling for a "cure" to deal with such problems. Then you should step a bit outside of your bubble. It's very common in the autistic community - and the neurodivergent community at large.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    Which "autistic community" are you talking about? Do you mean "parents of" Facebook groups?
    - squigz 2y ago
      Obviously I'm a spokesman for Autism Speaks.
      - ModernMech 2y ago
        I agree, I'm always happy to step out my bubble. That's why I'm here on HN -- this is not a safe place for autistic people. That said, it was not obvious to me you are a spokesperson for Autism Speaks.
        selimthegrim 2y ago
        I believe their tongue is firmly planted in their cheek.
        yareal 2y ago
        Pretty sure the person you are responding to is just being an asshole, inadvertently demonstrating your point that this isn't a safe place for autistic people.
        squigz 2y ago
        I was only responding in kind. And I'm autistic myself, so. Honestly, the only hostility toward austitic people I see around here is the person invalidating and ignoring the opinions of others within the autistic community.
mewpmewp2 2y ago
> You don’t even have to go to the extreme end. Ask people with milder presentations, and they’ll be able to tell you about all sorts of confusing interactions and frustrating situations they’ve experienced that wouldn’t have happened if they were neurotypical. Hard to say that doesn’t impact their quality of life. Sure, I had rough childhood, but looking back, I wouldn't want to be someone else. The way my brain focuses and optimises for certain ideas actually benefits society if the environment is correct. There's only limited amount of processing power anyone can have. I just have less points for social and more for other areas that others don't have. Yet society expects us to normalize or consider it a disease. I'm now very successful and extremely proud where I have reached in life. In my childhood I used to question why people didn't like me, if I had myself from now to guide myself, and create an environment for myself, I'm sure I would have had 100% happy childhood. And I know what and how to do if I ever had someone like myself as a kid, and it's not a disease. The reason my childhood was terrible was EXACTLY because of expectation that everyone should behave like X, and that was just not me. So everyone tells me I have disease that needs to be fixed. It's disgusting. I didn't finish high school because of all the issues I had, and spent years in depression, but as I happened to finally land in an environment that appreciated my differing thinking I was able to do exactly what my brain is suited for and make 8x+ average income in my area. I had passion as a kid, interest in weird things, but school and the social environment killed every little bit of it.
- WA 2y ago
  > I had passion as a kid, interest in weird things, but school and the social environment killed every little bit of it. As a parent of an autistic kid: How would you cultivate that? Our son is autistic, he is 8 years old. He started to hate school. All he cares for is Minecraft and Magic: The Gathering. It's a bit sad to see that he seemingly drowns his curiosity by immersing himself mentally only in these two topics. I wonder if there's a way to guide him to develop interest in other topics. Any recommendations?
  - imtringued 2y ago
    Make him play a Minecraft mod pack like Nomifactory or Gregtech horizons and an economic simulation game like prosperous universe. Use that as a stepping stone to increase his interest in architecture, computer science, mechanical engineering, chemistry or aerospace. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jYSfDcbY0w0&pp=ygULbm9taWZhY3Rvcnk%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jYSfDcbY0w0&pp=ygULbm9taWZhY3R...
yareal 2y ago
Why is that the autistic person's problem? I'm autistic, I broadly agree that eliminating autism is a negative for individuals and for society. Maybe the difficulties are things we should address as a society, rather than seeking to eliminate a class of people.

faeriechangling 2y ago

I can. When I look at extremely functional autistics like Elon Musk, the idea he has a condition which makes him diseased and disordered is absurd. I think the natural reaction to that is that either diagnostic criteria should be narrowed and/or it should be possible for people to lose their diagnosis if they achieve Elon Musk levels of functioning. -OR- Autism should be viewed more neutrally, as people of a certain type who are more susceptible to disease or disorders but to not necessarily have them.

ModernMech 2y ago
Elon Musk is highly functional but he also has a wide and deep support network unlike most other autistic people. He self immolates all the time and he's propped up by his great wealth. He self medicates with drugs. He has a team of people who handle his every need. When normal autistic people self immolate as such, they are cast from society forever - fired, locked up, abandoned, or even killed. And just because someone is high functioning today, it doesn't mean they will always be or always have been.
- faeriechangling 2y ago
  Yet he functions well in niche circumstances, and he's currently in said circumstances and functioning. Not only that, most people would not be able to function as well as Musk in Musk's shoes. Also, the absurdity isn't really Musk in a vacuum, it's him being in the same basket as people who can't complete any activities of daily living. He might actually be more similar to quite a few people with ADHD than quite a few people with level 3 autism. It's very strange and incoherent even. This is, by the way, all a result of what a mess of a taxonomy the DSM and ICD are.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  Not only that, consider the societal advantage of this behavior. Many social rules are wrong and group-level maladaptive. Having a subset of the population that doesn't adhere to those rules benefits society by allowing it to break out of local maxima. It's not a tendency we should suppress. Punishing people for non-conformity is the act of a villain. And yet we do, so that only people with wealth can survive doing it.