5 ms·

Detroit Makes the Same Mistake on EVs It Did with Japan

17 points by jseliger 2y ago

fargle 2y ago
https://archive.is/B7NcI https://archive.is/B7NcI please, if you are going to post paywalled links that aren't readable to most people, take the time to post an archive link
bdcravens 2y ago
This is a case where the headline doesn't match the article. Would make more sense for it to specifically say "Chinese EVs", since that's what the article is about.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
chii 2y ago
The article is short on action. What can the american EV manufacturers do to compete? The largest cost - the battery - is cheaper to produce in china (for which ever reason, it no longer matters as the results are the same regardless). What can american manufacturers do, not just EV manufacturers, to compete with the decades long reliance on chinese supply chain which has made products sold to american cheap, and affordable? The quality of life improvements cannot be rolled back. Their american wages cannot compete, and not to mention environmental regulations, costs (such as rents) skyrocketing etc. The only real way, as i see it, is to technologicially advance the problem away. Compete in an arena for which the chinese political state cannot mandate improvements in. This is getting scarcer and more difficult as china is becoming more technologically advanced. The US stupidly also blocked the semiconductor chips tech from china - which sounds "good" in theory, but is actually an own-goal. The lack of the more advanced nodes available means the US just created the mother of all inventions - necessity. If chinese firms had access to foreign made chips more cheaply than their own, it makes their own industry uncompetitive and force the CCP to sink even more dollars into it to subsidize it (and the US has to hope that the subsidy is wasted or not efficiently spent). Instead, the state subsidies will be efficiently spent because of the US trade restrictions, and this necessarily force them improve their own domestic industry. Mark my words, the technological edge the US enjoys will wither away soon enough, given the current trajectory. I, and i suspect many others, don't want to see the US resort to only having military coersion to maintain their global superpower status.
- AlotOfReading 2y ago
  Consumer vehicle preferences have never been solely about price and considering that none of the manufacturers actually want to compete solely on price, I don't think it's the right lens to use here. Manufacturers have extensive data on why consumers choose what they do and carefully position their lineups to address that data. They fail to achieve that regardless, because they have no real ability to actually fix the structural issues hobbling them like their software or the dealership model. They could fix these issues, of course, but the commitment doesn't actually exist when it's time to write the checks and do the work.
  - chii 2y ago
    > compete solely on price and yet, the american car market is very protectionist, esp. against cheap chinese imports.
- hakfoo 2y ago
  You'd think that the secret sauce American manufacturers SHOULD have is a deep understanding of the very specific needs and tastes of the US market. Range anxiety is a much bigger deal in the US than markets with shorter average commutes. There's more fear about small cars surviving impacts with our huge average vehicles. It wouldn't be hard to spin up at least a marketing campaign that says "We get it" and insinuate foreign competitors don't.
a0-prw 2y ago
China will lead humanity into the future, while stupid US politicians desperately try to hold them back. Just wait and see how badly this will go for the West if we continue on the confrontational path!

17 points by jseliger 2y ago

https://archive.is/B7NcI https://archive.is/B7NcI please, if you are going to post paywalled links that aren't readable to most people, take the time to post an archive link

bdcravens 2y ago

This is a case where the headline doesn't match the article. Would make more sense for it to specifically say "Chinese EVs", since that's what the article is about.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

chii 2y ago

The article is short on action. What can the american EV manufacturers do to compete? The largest cost - the battery - is cheaper to produce in china (for which ever reason, it no longer matters as the results are the same regardless). What can american manufacturers do, not just EV manufacturers, to compete with the decades long reliance on chinese supply chain which has made products sold to american cheap, and affordable? The quality of life improvements cannot be rolled back. Their american wages cannot compete, and not to mention environmental regulations, costs (such as rents) skyrocketing etc. The only real way, as i see it, is to technologicially advance the problem away. Compete in an arena for which the chinese political state cannot mandate improvements in. This is getting scarcer and more difficult as china is becoming more technologically advanced. The US stupidly also blocked the semiconductor chips tech from china - which sounds "good" in theory, but is actually an own-goal. The lack of the more advanced nodes available means the US just created the mother of all inventions - necessity. If chinese firms had access to foreign made chips more cheaply than their own, it makes their own industry uncompetitive and force the CCP to sink even more dollars into it to subsidize it (and the US has to hope that the subsidy is wasted or not efficiently spent). Instead, the state subsidies will be efficiently spent because of the US trade restrictions, and this necessarily force them improve their own domestic industry. Mark my words, the technological edge the US enjoys will wither away soon enough, given the current trajectory. I, and i suspect many others, don't want to see the US resort to only having military coersion to maintain their global superpower status.

AlotOfReading 2y ago
Consumer vehicle preferences have never been solely about price and considering that none of the manufacturers actually want to compete solely on price, I don't think it's the right lens to use here. Manufacturers have extensive data on why consumers choose what they do and carefully position their lineups to address that data. They fail to achieve that regardless, because they have no real ability to actually fix the structural issues hobbling them like their software or the dealership model. They could fix these issues, of course, but the commitment doesn't actually exist when it's time to write the checks and do the work.
- chii 2y ago
  > compete solely on price and yet, the american car market is very protectionist, esp. against cheap chinese imports.
hakfoo 2y ago
You'd think that the secret sauce American manufacturers SHOULD have is a deep understanding of the very specific needs and tastes of the US market. Range anxiety is a much bigger deal in the US than markets with shorter average commutes. There's more fear about small cars surviving impacts with our huge average vehicles. It wouldn't be hard to spin up at least a marketing campaign that says "We get it" and insinuate foreign competitors don't.

a0-prw 2y ago

China will lead humanity into the future, while stupid US politicians desperately try to hold them back. Just wait and see how badly this will go for the West if we continue on the confrontational path!