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I saw this kind of behavior when I worked for a Korean company here in the US. They treated us like animals. I thought I had seen the worst working conditions

I saw this kind of behavior when I worked for a Korean company here in the US. They treated us like animals. I thought I had seen the worst working conditions possible during my time in Haiti. But the two years I spent working for the Koreans showed me that I lacked a great deal of perspective regarding just how poorly employees can be treated. And they treated their visiting interns even worse. Students would fly in from Korea and rotate in/out every six months. Those kids were put through the wringer.

StefanBatory 2y ago
Whenever Korean factories opened in Poland, that was the same conclusion. Workers were treated like shit.
- hollywood_court 2y ago
  These types of companies are fleeing to the Southern US because the conservative governments here offer no protections for the employees.
  - macbook_amateur 2y ago
    I remember a Korean car factory in Alabama got caught using child labor a couple years back: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immi...
    - hollywood_court 2y ago
      My line supplied that plant. It's about 45 minutes down the road from where I worked. And the Alabama legislature is now making it easier for companies to hire child laborers. We're going to start seeing a lot more injuries in manufacturing and food processing. We are regressing.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Sadly, it's a common issue with recently developed country work culture. For example, TSMC is facing similar hurdles trying to expand semicon manufacturing in the US [0]. Even though SK, JP, TW, and Israel are all developed countries now, the developing country mentality still persists because their transition was relatively recent (a generation or less ago), and a lot of labor management and regulations is stuck in the old school era. At least in the EU, the recently developed (eg. Czechia) and developing countries (eg. Bulgaria) still have some labor frameworks to kinda follow and some kind of recourse - at least for white collar work. [0] - https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/
  - meindnoch 2y ago
    Czechia is recently developed? :DDDD
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      If Spain is a developed country with a median wage around $1600/mo and an HDI of 0.905, then Czechia with a median wage of $1400/mo and an HDI of 0.895 is one.
      - The_Colonel 2y ago
        Could be they have problem with the word "recently". Czech lands were pretty developed (relatively speaking) for many centuries, e. g. T the first German speaking university was established in Prague. Then the communist era spoiled it, World Bank recognized Czechia as "developed" 9nly in 2006.
        alephnerd 2y ago
        The World Bank classification is for High-Income, not developed. Even Russia, Mexico, and Turkey all caught up to that definition at various points in time before regressing. Even China's GDP per Capita is closeish to that level yet median household incomes and HDI are still lower than Thailand and Serbia. Czechia didn't catch up to Western Europe HDIs until the mid-2010s, and Median wages were significantly lower than much of Western Europe until recently (eg. The datapoint above), and GDP per Capita is still significantly behind much of Western Europe and the Asian Tigers. Even South Korea didn't officially become developed until the mid-2010s, and they outpaced Czechia in HDI and GDP per Capita by the early 2000s. Alternatively, if Czechia was a developed country in the mid-2000s, then Turkey and Hungary are now developed countries in the early 2020s as they have hit similar indicators as Czechia in the 2000s. > Czech lands were pretty developed Developed versus developing is a technical-ish term. Czechia was absolutely a developing country until recently. Just having a medieval university or some industrial capacity in the early 20th isn't saying much, as Korea and Taiwan were in a similar boat as well under the otherwise brutal Japanese colonial rule. And even today, water treatment in Czechia lags significantly behind much of the Western EU member states. Saying otherwise is just Eurocentricism. And it also ignores that fact that for most of it's history, it was CzechoSLOVAKIA and Slovakia is still lagging behind on developmental indicators to this day, despite having a similar linguistic and ethnic proximity to Czechs as Serbs are to Croats.
silverquiet 2y ago
What specifically did they do? I can say that I've been treated very badly by Private Equity and other employers myself, but it's easy to lack perspective and I don't really feel like trying to enter a victim contest. Hopefully I've learned enough to avoid that kind of employment in future.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  In IB/PE we have exit opps like VC or PM, and there is a reckoning in IB/PE leadership that the old school 60-100 hour analyst work culture is toxic. In Korean companies, the work culture is still stuck in the 90s era IB mentality, as a lot of management are much older and started their careers when chauvanism, racism, functional alcoholism, power politics, overwork, etc was still the norm. Tbf, SK was still a developing country until 10-15ish years ago.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    I'm assuming IB = investment banking, PE = private equity, VC = venture capital, and PM = public market. To be clear, I did not work for a private equity firm itself (I do not posses the psychopathic ambition required to do so), but for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      By PM I meant Product Management. A lot of PMs with MBAs are burned out IB Analysts who did the MBA to escape the grind. > for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience. That's a bit different. Depending on the type of PE, it may have been a PE of last resort. You only sell to Thoma Bravo if your company is an absolute dumpster fire and has no roadmap forward, so it needs drastic restructuring. Sucks for line level ICs ofc.
      - silverquiet 2y ago
        It was Apollo, but asking me to differentiate between them would be like the dentist asking me which drill I'd prefer; I really don't know the technical details, but they all seem very unpleasant.
chaostheory 2y ago
One of my good friends is South Korean. When he worked for Samsung in Seoul as an engineer over a decade ago, he was forced to live in Samsung dormitories which were overseen by their managers. Apparently, it was a shock even for him to realize that he had to ask his manager just to go out on a date. If I remember correctly, he even had to give details of his female date to his manager. (It may or may not be official policy, but what are you going to do when they ask and you need permission to leave?) Knowing what life was like here since he went to undergrad here, it was an easy choice for him to come back to the US.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Lots of Koreans move to Vietnam and Thailand for that reason. The pay is low in SK and the work culture horrid, so if your choice is earning $30-50k in Seoul or $20-40k in BKK or Saigon, plenty of people choose the latter.
orwin 2y ago
And tbh, Korean work culture seems to be horrible for overall productivity. Disclaimer: my only second hand knowledge are a Norwegian oil rig engineer and a French sailor (working on oil rigs. Weird, I know, one is extended family, second is happenstance). But from what I've heard, they have trouble adapting to new data (they _can_ do it in real emergency, but actively avoid taking initiative), hide issues and overall are very rigid and show almost no improvisation skills, all of which is a problem in high stress, fast-changing environment like oil rigs.

StefanBatory 2y ago

Whenever Korean factories opened in Poland, that was the same conclusion. Workers were treated like shit.

hollywood_court 2y ago
These types of companies are fleeing to the Southern US because the conservative governments here offer no protections for the employees.
- macbook_amateur 2y ago
  I remember a Korean car factory in Alabama got caught using child labor a couple years back: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immi...
  - hollywood_court 2y ago
    My line supplied that plant. It's about 45 minutes down the road from where I worked. And the Alabama legislature is now making it easier for companies to hire child laborers. We're going to start seeing a lot more injuries in manufacturing and food processing. We are regressing.
alephnerd 2y ago
Sadly, it's a common issue with recently developed country work culture. For example, TSMC is facing similar hurdles trying to expand semicon manufacturing in the US [0]. Even though SK, JP, TW, and Israel are all developed countries now, the developing country mentality still persists because their transition was relatively recent (a generation or less ago), and a lot of labor management and regulations is stuck in the old school era. At least in the EU, the recently developed (eg. Czechia) and developing countries (eg. Bulgaria) still have some labor frameworks to kinda follow and some kind of recourse - at least for white collar work. [0] - https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/
- meindnoch 2y ago
  Czechia is recently developed? :DDDD
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    If Spain is a developed country with a median wage around $1600/mo and an HDI of 0.905, then Czechia with a median wage of $1400/mo and an HDI of 0.895 is one.
    - The_Colonel 2y ago
      Could be they have problem with the word "recently". Czech lands were pretty developed (relatively speaking) for many centuries, e. g. T the first German speaking university was established in Prague. Then the communist era spoiled it, World Bank recognized Czechia as "developed" 9nly in 2006.
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        The World Bank classification is for High-Income, not developed. Even Russia, Mexico, and Turkey all caught up to that definition at various points in time before regressing. Even China's GDP per Capita is closeish to that level yet median household incomes and HDI are still lower than Thailand and Serbia. Czechia didn't catch up to Western Europe HDIs until the mid-2010s, and Median wages were significantly lower than much of Western Europe until recently (eg. The datapoint above), and GDP per Capita is still significantly behind much of Western Europe and the Asian Tigers. Even South Korea didn't officially become developed until the mid-2010s, and they outpaced Czechia in HDI and GDP per Capita by the early 2000s. Alternatively, if Czechia was a developed country in the mid-2000s, then Turkey and Hungary are now developed countries in the early 2020s as they have hit similar indicators as Czechia in the 2000s. > Czech lands were pretty developed Developed versus developing is a technical-ish term. Czechia was absolutely a developing country until recently. Just having a medieval university or some industrial capacity in the early 20th isn't saying much, as Korea and Taiwan were in a similar boat as well under the otherwise brutal Japanese colonial rule. And even today, water treatment in Czechia lags significantly behind much of the Western EU member states. Saying otherwise is just Eurocentricism. And it also ignores that fact that for most of it's history, it was CzechoSLOVAKIA and Slovakia is still lagging behind on developmental indicators to this day, despite having a similar linguistic and ethnic proximity to Czechs as Serbs are to Croats.

silverquiet 2y ago

What specifically did they do? I can say that I've been treated very badly by Private Equity and other employers myself, but it's easy to lack perspective and I don't really feel like trying to enter a victim contest. Hopefully I've learned enough to avoid that kind of employment in future.

alephnerd 2y ago
In IB/PE we have exit opps like VC or PM, and there is a reckoning in IB/PE leadership that the old school 60-100 hour analyst work culture is toxic. In Korean companies, the work culture is still stuck in the 90s era IB mentality, as a lot of management are much older and started their careers when chauvanism, racism, functional alcoholism, power politics, overwork, etc was still the norm. Tbf, SK was still a developing country until 10-15ish years ago.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  I'm assuming IB = investment banking, PE = private equity, VC = venture capital, and PM = public market. To be clear, I did not work for a private equity firm itself (I do not posses the psychopathic ambition required to do so), but for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    By PM I meant Product Management. A lot of PMs with MBAs are burned out IB Analysts who did the MBA to escape the grind. > for a company that ended up owned by a firm; that was the terrible experience. That's a bit different. Depending on the type of PE, it may have been a PE of last resort. You only sell to Thoma Bravo if your company is an absolute dumpster fire and has no roadmap forward, so it needs drastic restructuring. Sucks for line level ICs ofc.
    - silverquiet 2y ago
      It was Apollo, but asking me to differentiate between them would be like the dentist asking me which drill I'd prefer; I really don't know the technical details, but they all seem very unpleasant.

chaostheory 2y ago

One of my good friends is South Korean. When he worked for Samsung in Seoul as an engineer over a decade ago, he was forced to live in Samsung dormitories which were overseen by their managers. Apparently, it was a shock even for him to realize that he had to ask his manager just to go out on a date. If I remember correctly, he even had to give details of his female date to his manager. (It may or may not be official policy, but what are you going to do when they ask and you need permission to leave?) Knowing what life was like here since he went to undergrad here, it was an easy choice for him to come back to the US.

alephnerd 2y ago
Lots of Koreans move to Vietnam and Thailand for that reason. The pay is low in SK and the work culture horrid, so if your choice is earning $30-50k in Seoul or $20-40k in BKK or Saigon, plenty of people choose the latter.

orwin 2y ago

And tbh, Korean work culture seems to be horrible for overall productivity. Disclaimer: my only second hand knowledge are a Norwegian oil rig engineer and a French sailor (working on oil rigs. Weird, I know, one is extended family, second is happenstance). But from what I've heard, they have trouble adapting to new data (they _can_ do it in real emergency, but actively avoid taking initiative), hide issues and overall are very rigid and show almost no improvisation skills, all of which is a problem in high stress, fast-changing environment like oil rigs.