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This argument assumes that we can destroy Palo Alto, rebuild it anew into something completely different, and preserve the value people ascribe to Palo Alto. Th
by xyzzyz 2y ago
This argument assumes that we can destroy Palo Alto, rebuild it anew into something completely different, and preserve the value people ascribe to Palo Alto. This is not how it works.
If it worked this way, why do it to Palo Alto? Why not do it to Eureka, CA, or, even better, some unincorporated land with no zoning rules to speak of? Just buy it for pennies on the dollar, slap midtown Manhattan density construction on it, and reap the profits. Why are Bay Area VCs throwing billions at stupid startup ideas, yet won't stoop to pick up trillion dollars from the zoning gutter?
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoWhy not just do this to East Palo Alto, Palo Alto's less attractive sibling right across the highway?
- bombcar 2y agoOr any of those nature preserves, eh? We could develop even just one of them and pocket a cool trillion! Then using the trillion, buy Palo Alto and turn it into a nature reserve. Win/win!
- dnissley 2y agoHow do you think NYC became NYC?
- wkat4242 2y agoNYC became NYC in a different time and it was always the gateway to the new world You can create a new city in the middle of nowhere but you'll be missing any authenticity or history. You won't find a bar "since 1889". Some care more about that than others. Of course that's less of a factor in the US anyway as everything is much more recent. Planned cities can work but I still tend to find them quite weird. Luke Canberra in Australia. Or Lelystad and Almere in the Netherlands (their whole province is reclaimed land).
- baggy_trough 2y agoThrough incremental changes over the past 400 years.
- quickthrowman 2y agoIt developed organically over Four Hundred Years. 400 years. Four Hundred Years.
- voisin 2y agoGood point. Better point: zoning wasn’t a thing for… ~340 of years. People could largely do what they want and co-located uses was the name of the game. Central planning doesn’t fucking work.
- MagnumOpus 2y agoZoning was definitely a thing since time immemorial (and 5000 years before that). Zoning was enforced by the Count or Lord or Guildhall, and you can bet your bottom dollar that nobody was allowed to run a tannery right next to the ducal palace or Market Square. Zoning laws are a more recent invention, and zoning laws combined with financial leverage and green belts/density limits for maximum real estate price pain only cropped up as an innovation in the 20th century.
- voisin 2y agoOk, I agree with everything you’ve written, but my point was that New York didn’t develop under the zoning laws that we have had since the 1950s municipal central planning paradigm.
- mdgrech23 2y agoA lot of ignorance in this comment. Many early American cities now big major metros were built on top of native American trading routes/trading posts. This idea of a blank slate is grounded is totally false.
- babelfish 2y agoThey are doing that, with the California Forever project, which is equally as dumb
- trhway 2y agoMy idea is even more "dumber" - 12+ miles off the shore of SF. Drive a lot of pillars and pour a lot of concrete and build some similar monstrosity to that "Wall City" Saudis are planning in the desert (or that Star Trek Millennium Tower). Don't need even city charter from the state, no voter approval, etc. Fast hydroplaning taxis to SF, etc. Probably some no-work-visa loopholes.
- supportengineer 2y agoWhy not just repeat Foster City along the entire bay shore?
- trhway 2y agoPersonally I think we don't need to screw the Bay further, and it would be taking away marsh habitat from birds and other animals whereis building in the ocean would create new habitat underwater and a new overwater place for the birds (kind of micro-Faralon). And I also think that building a large foundation in 100-200ft deep ocean is easier and more feasible than dealing with all the issues wrt. truly large development in Bay Area.
- xnx 2y agoBluthton? https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Transcript_of_The_Ocean_Walker#:~:text=Instead%20of%20making%20houses%2C%20maybe%20you%20should%20make%20land https://arresteddevelopment.fandom.com/wiki/Transcript_of_Th....
- petesergeant 2y ago> which is equally as dumb What’s dumb about it? As someone who heard about 5 minutes ago, and did 5 minutes of research, it doesn’t look that dumb
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- renewiltord 2y agoThe answer is that there's no real difference. People object to it no matter where. California Forever is the current attempt to get this done outside the immediate Bay and I hope it succeeds. Overall, most people just don't like change. I see this among Americans a lot. They'll complain that their lot in life is miserable but if you ask them to do something about it it's always "you expect me to just drop everything and leave for an uncertain chance at something"? No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to whine. But it's all right. These kinds of things don't last long. The UK did all of this before and the nation is crumbling. Most of Europe did this, too, and now it's primarily a theme park for relatively rich Americans to come visit. The local Europeans complain about the cost of living and how their $40k job as Head of Cybersecurity for their nation pays only for a 50 m^2 home 1 he from work. But they made a bed and now we lie in it while they lie on the floor. It is the nature of people to stall at some point. Then the ones who come after take their stuff. Online they'll complain about it but what are they going to do.
- hnav 2y agoWhy not $SOME_OTHER_PLACE _is_ the classic NIMBY argument.
- xyzzyz 2y agoYes, and? You cannot just point to an argument, say it’s NIMBY and call it a day. You have to actually argue against it. Slapping a derogatory label on it and dismissing it is not enough.
- voisin 2y ago> Just buy it for pennies on the dollar, slap midtown Manhattan density construction on it, and reap the profits. China has been running a real life Monte Carlo simulation on this for two decades and the results are eerily quiet. Your point is accurate.
- spicyusername 2y agoI'm not so sure the results are as dour as you're implying. China has many, many enviable "20-minute cities" scattered all over, all built high density from the ground up.
- ccgreg 2y agoI live in downtown Palo Alto, and it has a lot of mid-rise buildings and is walkable. Expanding the area that this is true for is not something completely different.