5 ms·

As soon as the privacy thing goes away, I'd say a major part of their customer base goes away too. Most people use android so they don't get "hacked" if Apple i

As soon as the privacy thing goes away, I'd say a major part of their customer base goes away too. Most people use android so they don't get "hacked" if Apple is doing the hacking, I'd just buy a cheaper alternative.

Draiken 3y ago
At least here in Brazil, I've never heard such arguments. Seems even more unlikely for non technical users. It's just their latest market campaign, as far as I can tell. The vast majority of people buy iPhones because of the status it gives.
- everly 3y ago
  They famously had a standoff with the US gov't over the Secure Enclave. Marketing aside, all indications point to the iOS platform being the most secure mobile option (imo).
- elzbardico 3y ago
  This is a prejudiced take. Running AI tasks locally on the device definitely is a giant improvement for the user experience. But not only that, Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space. I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. If I cared about status, I would have changed my phone already for a new one.
  - kernal 3y ago
    >Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space This is a lie. The latest Android SoCs are just as powerful as the A series. >Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy.
    - martimarkov 3y ago
      Strangle Android 14 seems to not be available for s20 phone which was released in 2020? Or am I mistaken here?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - Jtsummers 3y ago
      > Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy. On the second part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history The last iPads to stop getting OS updates (including security, to be consistent with what Samsung and Google are pledging) got 7 and 9 years of updates each (5th gen iPad and 1st gen iPad Pro). The last iPhones to lose support got about 7 years each (iPhone 8 and X). 6S, SE (1st), and 7 got 9 and 8 years of OS support with security updates. The 5S (released in 2013) last got a security update in early 2023, so also about 9 years, the 6 (2014) ended at the same time so let's call it 8 years. The 4S, 2011, got 8 years of OS support. 5 and 5C got 7 and 6 years of support (5C was 5 in a new case, so was always going to get a year less in support). Apple has not, that I've seen at least, ever established a long term support policy on iPhones and iPads, but the numbers show they're doing at least as well as what Samsung and Google are promising to do, but have not yet done. And they've been doing this for more than a decade now. EDIT: Reworked the iOS numbers a bit, down to the month (I was looking at years above and rounding, so this is more accurate). iOS support time by device for devices that cannot use the current iOS 17 (so the XS and above are not counted here) in months: 1st - 32 3G - 37 3GS - 56 4 - 48 4S - 93 5 - 81 5C - 69 5S - 112 6 - 100 6S - 102 SE - 96 7 - 90 8 - 78 X - 76 The average is 72.5 months, just over 6 years. If we knock out the first 2 phones (both have somewhat justifiable short support periods, massive hardware changes between each and their successor) the average jumps to just shy of 79 months, or about 6.5 years. The 8 and X look like regressions, but their last updates were just 2 months ago (March 21, 2024) so still a good chance their support period will increase and exceed the 7 year mark like every model since the 5S. We'll have to see if they get any more updates in November 2024 or later to see if they can hit the 7 year mark.
  - patall 3y ago
    > I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. My Pixel 4a here is also going strong, only the battery is slowly getting worse. I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? The 4a is now past android updates, but that was promised after 3 years. But at 350 bucks, it was like 40% less than the cheapest iPhone mini at that time.
    - onemoresoop 3y ago
      > I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? Hardware is pretty beefed up but bloat keeps on growing, that is slowing things down considerably.
    - moneywoes 3y ago
      what about security updates?
  - tick_tock_tick 3y ago
    > I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Only because Apple lost a lawsuit otherwise they'd have kept intentionally slowing it down.
    - noname120 3y ago
      This has been debunked.
      - FireBeyond 3y ago
        .... by Apple.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        noname120 3y ago
        See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        Right. "By Apple". Apple says it made these changes for other reasons, honestly, truly. And if it happened to have the same effect, then that was unfortunate, and unintended. Only Apple really knows. But there was a slew of changes and reversals following the drama. "Oh, we'll implement notifications now", "Oh, we'll change the peak performance behavior", and "we will change and add additional diagnostics to make sure issues are battery related" certainly has a feel for a bunch of ex post facto rationalization of several things that seem, to me, that if it was truly a battery thing all along, would have been functional requirements.
- dijit 3y ago
  I never understood this argument. Theres no “status” to a brand of phone when the cheapest point of entry is comparable and the flagship is cheaper than the alternative flagship. Marketing in most of europe is chiefly not the same as the US though so maybe its a perspective thing. I just find it hard to really argue “status” when the last 4 iPhone generations are largely the same and cheaper than the Samsung flagships. At Elgiganten a Samsung S24 Ultra is 19,490 SEK[0]. The most expensive iPhone 15 pro max is 18,784 SEK at the same store[1]. [0]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/samsung-galaxy-s24-ultra-5g-smartphone-12512gb-titanium-black/727303 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock... [1]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/iphone-15-pro-max-5g-smartphone-512gb-bla-titan/673045 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock...
  - pompino 3y ago
    Its not an argument, just ask why people lust after the latest iPhones in poor countries. They do it because they see rich people owning them. Unless you experience that, you won't really understand it.
  - Draiken 3y ago
    My take is that it's like a fashion accessory. People buy Gucci for the brand, not the material or comfort. Rich people ask for the latest most expensive iPhone even if they're only going to use WhatsApp and Instagram on it. It's not because of privacy or functionality, it's simply to show off to everyone they can purchase it. Also to not stand out within their peers as the only one without it. As another content said: it's not an argument, it's a fact here.
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      I have an iPhone so I guess I qualify as a rich person by your definition. I am also a software engineer. I cannot state enough how bogus that statement is. I've used both iPhone and Android, and recent flagships. iPhone is by far the easiest one to use. Speaking in more objective terms, iPhones have a coherent UI which maintains its consistency both throughout the OS and over the years. They're the most dumbed down phones and easiest to understand. I recommend iPhone to all my friends and relatives. There's obviously tons of people who see iPhone as a status item. They're right, because iPhone is expensive and only the rich can buy them. This doesn't mean iPhone is not the best option out there for a person who doesn't want to extensively customize his phone and just use it.
- briandear 3y ago
  The vast majority of people don’t. They buy because the ecosystem works. Not sure how I get status from a phone that nobody knows I have. I don’t wear it on a chain.
  - Draiken 3y ago
    Could it possibly be different in Brazil? iPhones are not ubiquitous here, and they're way more expensive than other options.
- veunes 2y ago
  Yes, Apple has cultivated a certain brand image in some ways.
jamesmontalvo3 3y ago
Maybe true for a lot of the HN population, but my teenagers are mortified by the idea of me giving them android phones because then they would be the pariahs turning group messages from blue to green.
- WheatMillington 3y ago
  This is a sad state of affairs.
  - adamomada 3y ago
    Interesting that some people would take that as an Apple problem and others would take it as a Google problem Who’s at fault for not having built-in messaging that works with rich text, photos, videos, etc? Google has abandoned more messaging products than I can remember while Apple focused on literally the main function of a phone in the 21st century. And they get shit for it
    - pseudalopex 3y ago
      Most of the world doesn't care about built in. Apple decided against iMessage on Android for lock in. Android had RCS in 2019.
    - int_19h 3y ago
      Apple get shit for it because they made it a proprietary protocol for which clients are not available on anything except their own hardware. The whole point of messaging is that it should work with all my contacts, not just those who drank the Apple-flavored Kool-Aid.
      - paulmd 3y ago
        Google’s protocol is proprietary too - their encryption extension makes it inaccessible for anyone else and google will not partner or license (companies have tried). RCS as currently implemented is iMessage but with a coat of google paint. There is no there there.
littlestymaar 3y ago
Apple only pivoted into the “privacy” branding relatively recently [1] and I don't think that many people came for that reason alone. In any case, most are now trapped into the walled garden and the effort to escape is likely big enough. And there's no escape anyway, since Google will always make Android worse in that regard… [1] in 2013 they even marketed their “eBeacon” technology as a way for retail stores to monitor and track their customers which…
- adamomada 3y ago
  Ca 2013 was the release of the Nexus 5, arguably the first really usable android smartphone. Privacy wasn’t really a concern because most people didn’t have the privacy eroding device yet. In the years following the Nexus 5 is where smartphones went into geometric growth and the slow realization of the privacy nightmare became apparent Imho I was really excited to get a Nexus 4 at the time, just a few short years later the shine wore off and I was horrified at the smartphone enabled future. And I have a 40 year background in computers and understand them better than 99 out of 100 users – if I didn’t see it, I can’t blame them either
  - mkl 3y ago
    > Ca 2013 was the release of the Nexus 5, arguably the first really usable android smartphone. What a strange statement. I was late to the game with a Nexus S in 2010, and it was really usable.
    - adamomada 3y ago
      Define usable. Imho before Nexus 4 everything was crap, Nexus 4 barely was enough (4x1.4 GHz), Nexus 5 (4x2.2GHz) plus software at the time (post-kitkat) was when it was really ready for mainstream
moneywoes 3y ago
is that still the case?
tick_tock_tick 3y ago
I'd say from my experience the average Apple users care less about privacy then the general public. It's a status symbol first and foremost 99% of what people do on their phones is basically identical on both platforms at this point.

Draiken 3y ago

At least here in Brazil, I've never heard such arguments. Seems even more unlikely for non technical users. It's just their latest market campaign, as far as I can tell. The vast majority of people buy iPhones because of the status it gives.

everly 3y ago
They famously had a standoff with the US gov't over the Secure Enclave. Marketing aside, all indications point to the iOS platform being the most secure mobile option (imo).
elzbardico 3y ago
This is a prejudiced take. Running AI tasks locally on the device definitely is a giant improvement for the user experience. But not only that, Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space. I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. If I cared about status, I would have changed my phone already for a new one.
- kernal 3y ago
  >Apple CPUs are objectively leagues ahead of their competition in the mobile space This is a lie. The latest Android SoCs are just as powerful as the A series. >Because even a 4 years old IPhone still has specs that don't lag behind by much the equivalent Android phones, I still receive the latest OS updates, and because frankly, Android OS is mess. Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy.
  - martimarkov 3y ago
    Strangle Android 14 seems to not be available for s20 phone which was released in 2020? Or am I mistaken here?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    > Samsung and Google offer 7 years of OS and security updates. I believe that beats the Apple policy. On the second part: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPadOS_version_history The last iPads to stop getting OS updates (including security, to be consistent with what Samsung and Google are pledging) got 7 and 9 years of updates each (5th gen iPad and 1st gen iPad Pro). The last iPhones to lose support got about 7 years each (iPhone 8 and X). 6S, SE (1st), and 7 got 9 and 8 years of OS support with security updates. The 5S (released in 2013) last got a security update in early 2023, so also about 9 years, the 6 (2014) ended at the same time so let's call it 8 years. The 4S, 2011, got 8 years of OS support. 5 and 5C got 7 and 6 years of support (5C was 5 in a new case, so was always going to get a year less in support). Apple has not, that I've seen at least, ever established a long term support policy on iPhones and iPads, but the numbers show they're doing at least as well as what Samsung and Google are promising to do, but have not yet done. And they've been doing this for more than a decade now. EDIT: Reworked the iOS numbers a bit, down to the month (I was looking at years above and rounding, so this is more accurate). iOS support time by device for devices that cannot use the current iOS 17 (so the XS and above are not counted here) in months: 1st - 32 3G - 37 3GS - 56 4 - 48 4S - 93 5 - 81 5C - 69 5S - 112 6 - 100 6S - 102 SE - 96 7 - 90 8 - 78 X - 76 The average is 72.5 months, just over 6 years. If we knock out the first 2 phones (both have somewhat justifiable short support periods, massive hardware changes between each and their successor) the average jumps to just shy of 79 months, or about 6.5 years. The 8 and X look like regressions, but their last updates were just 2 months ago (March 21, 2024) so still a good chance their support period will increase and exceed the 7 year mark like every model since the 5S. We'll have to see if they get any more updates in November 2024 or later to see if they can hit the 7 year mark.
- patall 3y ago
  > I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. My Pixel 4a here is also going strong, only the battery is slowly getting worse. I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? The 4a is now past android updates, but that was promised after 3 years. But at 350 bucks, it was like 40% less than the cheapest iPhone mini at that time.
  - onemoresoop 3y ago
    > I mean, it's 2024, do phones really still get slow? Hardware is pretty beefed up but bloat keeps on growing, that is slowing things down considerably.
  - moneywoes 3y ago
    what about security updates?
- tick_tock_tick 3y ago
  > I am still using a IPhone released in 2020 with absolutely no appreciable slow down or losses in perceived performance. Only because Apple lost a lawsuit otherwise they'd have kept intentionally slowing it down.
  - noname120 3y ago
    This has been debunked.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      .... by Apple.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - noname120 3y ago
        See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate
        FireBeyond 3y ago
        Right. "By Apple". Apple says it made these changes for other reasons, honestly, truly. And if it happened to have the same effect, then that was unfortunate, and unintended. Only Apple really knows. But there was a slew of changes and reversals following the drama. "Oh, we'll implement notifications now", "Oh, we'll change the peak performance behavior", and "we will change and add additional diagnostics to make sure issues are battery related" certainly has a feel for a bunch of ex post facto rationalization of several things that seem, to me, that if it was truly a battery thing all along, would have been functional requirements.
dijit 3y ago
I never understood this argument. Theres no “status” to a brand of phone when the cheapest point of entry is comparable and the flagship is cheaper than the alternative flagship. Marketing in most of europe is chiefly not the same as the US though so maybe its a perspective thing. I just find it hard to really argue “status” when the last 4 iPhone generations are largely the same and cheaper than the Samsung flagships. At Elgiganten a Samsung S24 Ultra is 19,490 SEK[0]. The most expensive iPhone 15 pro max is 18,784 SEK at the same store[1]. [0]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/samsung-galaxy-s24-ultra-5g-smartphone-12512gb-titanium-black/727303 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock... [1]: https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklockor/mobiltelefon/iphone-15-pro-max-5g-smartphone-512gb-bla-titan/673045 https://nya.elgiganten.se/product/mobiler-tablets-smartklock...
- pompino 3y ago
  Its not an argument, just ask why people lust after the latest iPhones in poor countries. They do it because they see rich people owning them. Unless you experience that, you won't really understand it.
- Draiken 3y ago
  My take is that it's like a fashion accessory. People buy Gucci for the brand, not the material or comfort. Rich people ask for the latest most expensive iPhone even if they're only going to use WhatsApp and Instagram on it. It's not because of privacy or functionality, it's simply to show off to everyone they can purchase it. Also to not stand out within their peers as the only one without it. As another content said: it's not an argument, it's a fact here.
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    I have an iPhone so I guess I qualify as a rich person by your definition. I am also a software engineer. I cannot state enough how bogus that statement is. I've used both iPhone and Android, and recent flagships. iPhone is by far the easiest one to use. Speaking in more objective terms, iPhones have a coherent UI which maintains its consistency both throughout the OS and over the years. They're the most dumbed down phones and easiest to understand. I recommend iPhone to all my friends and relatives. There's obviously tons of people who see iPhone as a status item. They're right, because iPhone is expensive and only the rich can buy them. This doesn't mean iPhone is not the best option out there for a person who doesn't want to extensively customize his phone and just use it.
briandear 3y ago
The vast majority of people don’t. They buy because the ecosystem works. Not sure how I get status from a phone that nobody knows I have. I don’t wear it on a chain.
- Draiken 3y ago
  Could it possibly be different in Brazil? iPhones are not ubiquitous here, and they're way more expensive than other options.
veunes 2y ago
Yes, Apple has cultivated a certain brand image in some ways.

jamesmontalvo3 3y ago

Maybe true for a lot of the HN population, but my teenagers are mortified by the idea of me giving them android phones because then they would be the pariahs turning group messages from blue to green.

WheatMillington 3y ago
This is a sad state of affairs.
- adamomada 3y ago
  Interesting that some people would take that as an Apple problem and others would take it as a Google problem Who’s at fault for not having built-in messaging that works with rich text, photos, videos, etc? Google has abandoned more messaging products than I can remember while Apple focused on literally the main function of a phone in the 21st century. And they get shit for it
  - pseudalopex 3y ago
    Most of the world doesn't care about built in. Apple decided against iMessage on Android for lock in. Android had RCS in 2019.
  - int_19h 3y ago
    Apple get shit for it because they made it a proprietary protocol for which clients are not available on anything except their own hardware. The whole point of messaging is that it should work with all my contacts, not just those who drank the Apple-flavored Kool-Aid.
    - paulmd 3y ago
      Google’s protocol is proprietary too - their encryption extension makes it inaccessible for anyone else and google will not partner or license (companies have tried). RCS as currently implemented is iMessage but with a coat of google paint. There is no there there.

littlestymaar 3y ago

Apple only pivoted into the “privacy” branding relatively recently [1] and I don't think that many people came for that reason alone. In any case, most are now trapped into the walled garden and the effort to escape is likely big enough. And there's no escape anyway, since Google will always make Android worse in that regard… [1] in 2013 they even marketed their “eBeacon” technology as a way for retail stores to monitor and track their customers which…

adamomada 3y ago
Ca 2013 was the release of the Nexus 5, arguably the first really usable android smartphone. Privacy wasn’t really a concern because most people didn’t have the privacy eroding device yet. In the years following the Nexus 5 is where smartphones went into geometric growth and the slow realization of the privacy nightmare became apparent Imho I was really excited to get a Nexus 4 at the time, just a few short years later the shine wore off and I was horrified at the smartphone enabled future. And I have a 40 year background in computers and understand them better than 99 out of 100 users – if I didn’t see it, I can’t blame them either
- mkl 3y ago
  > Ca 2013 was the release of the Nexus 5, arguably the first really usable android smartphone. What a strange statement. I was late to the game with a Nexus S in 2010, and it was really usable.
  - adamomada 3y ago
    Define usable. Imho before Nexus 4 everything was crap, Nexus 4 barely was enough (4x1.4 GHz), Nexus 5 (4x2.2GHz) plus software at the time (post-kitkat) was when it was really ready for mainstream

moneywoes 3y ago

is that still the case?

tick_tock_tick 3y ago

I'd say from my experience the average Apple users care less about privacy then the general public. It's a status symbol first and foremost 99% of what people do on their phones is basically identical on both platforms at this point.