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Welcome to being old! Watch a 20-year old creative work on an iPad and you will quickly change your mind. Watch someone who has, "never really used a desktop,

Welcome to being old! Watch a 20-year old creative work on an iPad and you will quickly change your mind. Watch someone who has, "never really used a desktop, [I] just use an iPad" work in Procreate or LumaFusion. The iPad has amazing software. Better, in many ways, than desktop alternatives if you know how to use it. There are some things they can't do, and the workflow can be less flexible or full featured in some cases, but the speed at which some people (not me) can work on an iPad is mindblowing. I use a "pro" app on an iPad and I find myself looking around for how to do something and end up having to Google it half the time. When I watch someone who really knows how to use an iPad use the same app they know exactly what gesture to do or where to long tap. I'm like, "How did you know that clicking on that part of the timeline would trigger that selection," and they just look back at you like, "What do you mean? How else would you do it?" There is a bizarre and almost undocumented design langauge of iPadOS that some people simply seem to know. It often pops up in those little "tap-torials" when a new feature roles out that I either ignore or forget… but other people internalize them.

quasarj 2y ago
They can have my keyboard when they pry it from my cold dead hands! And my mouse, for that matter.
- themagician 2y ago
  Oh, I'm with you. But the funny thing is, they won't even want it. I have two iPads and two pencils—that way each iPad is never without a penicl—and yet I rarely use the pencil. I just don't think about it. But then when I do, I'm like, "Why don't I use this more often? It's fantastic." I have tried and tried to adapt and I can not. I need a mouse, keyboard, seperate numpad, and two 5K Displays to mostly arrive at the same output that someone can do with a single 11" or 13" screen and a bunch of differnt spaces that can be flicked through. I desperatedly wanted to make the iPad my primary machine and I could not do it. But, honestly, I think it has more to do with me than the software. I've become old and stubborn. I want to do things my way.
  - skydhash 2y ago
    > "Why don't I use this more often? It's fantastic." PDF marking and procreate are my main uses for it. And using the ipad on a flat surface.
- Terretta 2y ago
  Magic Keyboard is both, and the current (last, as of today) iteration is great. It is just fine driving Citrix or any web app like VSCode.dev.
  - btown 2y ago
    The existence of vscode.dev always makes me wonder why Microsoft never released an iOS version of VSCode to get more users into its ecosystem. Sure, it's almost as locked down as the web environment, but there's a lot of space in that "almost" - you could do all sorts of things like let users run their code, or complex extensions, in containers in a web view using https://github.com/ktock/container2wasm https://github.com/ktock/container2wasm or similar.
  - cromka 2y ago
    It irks me they didn’t print even tiniest F denotations on the functional keys.
aurareturn 2y ago
I'm with you. I think HN (and conversational internet) disproportionally contains more laptop people than the public. A lot of of the younger generation does all their work on their phone and tablet and does not have a computer.
- Tiktaalik 2y ago
  If those younger folks are as the parent says in the creative sector. iPad has been a workflow gamechanger for folks who use photoshop etc but users are still prevented from coding on it.
  - themagician 2y ago
    It's actually come a long way. The workflow is still… sub-optimal, but there are some really nice terminal apps (LaTerminal, Prompt, ShellFish, iSH) which are functional too. Working Copy is pretty dope for working with git once you get you adapt to it. I do most of my dev on a Pi5 now, so actually working on the iPad is not that difficult. If they ever release Xcode for iPadOS that would be a true gamechanger.
  - nomel 2y ago
    "Prevented from coding" is just not true. There are many python IDEs, Swift Playgrounds, etc. Pythonista, and the like, are neat because you get full access to all the iPhone sensors.
  - amjnsx 2y ago
    And maybe that's fine? Look at it from the opposite side. All those artists complaining about how terrible macbooks are because you can't draw on them.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Majority of people don’t know what programming is and do shitton of manual things that can be automated by a simple bash/Python script, so what?
  - 2y ago
steve_adams_86 2y ago
I watched someone do some incredibly impressive modelling on an iPad Pro via shapr3D, and yeah, it was a young person. I’m into the idea of modelling like this, or drawing, but the reality is I spend most of my time and money on a desktop work station because the software I need most is there. I’m totally open to iPads being legit work machines, but they’re still too limited (for me) to make the time and cash investment for the transition. You’re definitely right though. People are doing awesome work on them without the help of a traditional desktop or laptop computer.
Der_Einzige 2y ago
The examples given are always artists, whose jobs are actively on the chopping block due to AI models and systems which checks notes don't even run that effectively on apple hardware yet! Of course, SWE jobs are on the chopping block for the same reasons, but I claim that AI art models are ahead of AI coding models in terms of quality and flexibility.
GeneralMaximus 2y ago
> Welcome to being old! This has nothing to do with age. I have an iPad Pro that I barely use because it has been designed for use cases that I just don't have. I don't do any digital art, don't take handwritten notes, and don't need to scan and/or mark up documents very often. I don't edit photos or videos often enough to need a completely separate device for the task. I mostly use my computers for software development, which is impossible on an iPad. I tried running my dev tools inside an iSH session, and also on a remote Linux box that I could SSH into. It wasn't a great experience. Why do this when I could just run VS Code or WebStorm on a Mac? I also write a lot -- fiction, blog posts, journal entries, reading notes -- which should technically be possible to do well on the iPad. In practice there just aren't enough powerful apps for serious long-form writing on a tablet. Microsoft Word on iPad lacks most of the features of its desktop counterpart, Scrivener doesn't support cloud sync properly, iA Writer is too limited if you're writing anything over a few thousand words, and Obsidian's UI just doesn't work well on a touch device. The only viable app is Ulysses, which is ... okay, I guess? If it floats your boat. I sometimes do music production. This is now possible on the iPad via Logic Pro. I suppose I could give it a try, but what does that get me? I already own an Ableton license and a couple of nice VSTs, none of which transfers over to the iPad. I can also download random third-party apps to manipulate audio on my Mac, or mess around with Max4Live, or use my Push 2 to make music. Again, this stuff doesn't work on an iPad and it never will, because the APIs to enable these things simply don't exist. There are tons of people who use Windows because they need to use proprietary Windows-based CAD software. Or people who need the full desktop version of Excel to do their jobs. Or academics and researchers who need Python/R to crunch data. All of these people might LOVE to use something like these new iPads, but they can't because iPadOS just can't meet their use cases. I really like the idea of a convertible tablet that can support touch, stylus, keyboard, and pointer input. The iPad does a great job at being this device as far as hardware and system software is concerned. But unfortunately, it's too limited for a the kinds of workflows people using laptops/desktops need to do.
- themagician 2y ago
  It's okay. It happens to all of us.
faeriechangling 2y ago
It's not a matter of being young or old, it's that iPadOS is not tooled to be a productive machine for software developers, but IS tooled to be productive machine for artists.

quasarj 2y ago

They can have my keyboard when they pry it from my cold dead hands! And my mouse, for that matter.

themagician 2y ago
Oh, I'm with you. But the funny thing is, they won't even want it. I have two iPads and two pencils—that way each iPad is never without a penicl—and yet I rarely use the pencil. I just don't think about it. But then when I do, I'm like, "Why don't I use this more often? It's fantastic." I have tried and tried to adapt and I can not. I need a mouse, keyboard, seperate numpad, and two 5K Displays to mostly arrive at the same output that someone can do with a single 11" or 13" screen and a bunch of differnt spaces that can be flicked through. I desperatedly wanted to make the iPad my primary machine and I could not do it. But, honestly, I think it has more to do with me than the software. I've become old and stubborn. I want to do things my way.
- skydhash 2y ago
  > "Why don't I use this more often? It's fantastic." PDF marking and procreate are my main uses for it. And using the ipad on a flat surface.
Terretta 2y ago
Magic Keyboard is both, and the current (last, as of today) iteration is great. It is just fine driving Citrix or any web app like VSCode.dev.
- btown 2y ago
  The existence of vscode.dev always makes me wonder why Microsoft never released an iOS version of VSCode to get more users into its ecosystem. Sure, it's almost as locked down as the web environment, but there's a lot of space in that "almost" - you could do all sorts of things like let users run their code, or complex extensions, in containers in a web view using https://github.com/ktock/container2wasm https://github.com/ktock/container2wasm or similar.
- cromka 2y ago
  It irks me they didn’t print even tiniest F denotations on the functional keys.

aurareturn 2y ago

I'm with you. I think HN (and conversational internet) disproportionally contains more laptop people than the public. A lot of of the younger generation does all their work on their phone and tablet and does not have a computer.

Tiktaalik 2y ago
If those younger folks are as the parent says in the creative sector. iPad has been a workflow gamechanger for folks who use photoshop etc but users are still prevented from coding on it.
- themagician 2y ago
  It's actually come a long way. The workflow is still… sub-optimal, but there are some really nice terminal apps (LaTerminal, Prompt, ShellFish, iSH) which are functional too. Working Copy is pretty dope for working with git once you get you adapt to it. I do most of my dev on a Pi5 now, so actually working on the iPad is not that difficult. If they ever release Xcode for iPadOS that would be a true gamechanger.
- nomel 2y ago
  "Prevented from coding" is just not true. There are many python IDEs, Swift Playgrounds, etc. Pythonista, and the like, are neat because you get full access to all the iPhone sensors.
- amjnsx 2y ago
  And maybe that's fine? Look at it from the opposite side. All those artists complaining about how terrible macbooks are because you can't draw on them.
wiseowise 2y ago
Majority of people don’t know what programming is and do shitton of manual things that can be automated by a simple bash/Python script, so what?
- 2y ago

steve_adams_86 2y ago

I watched someone do some incredibly impressive modelling on an iPad Pro via shapr3D, and yeah, it was a young person. I’m into the idea of modelling like this, or drawing, but the reality is I spend most of my time and money on a desktop work station because the software I need most is there. I’m totally open to iPads being legit work machines, but they’re still too limited (for me) to make the time and cash investment for the transition. You’re definitely right though. People are doing awesome work on them without the help of a traditional desktop or laptop computer.

Der_Einzige 2y ago

The examples given are always artists, whose jobs are actively on the chopping block due to AI models and systems which checks notes don't even run that effectively on apple hardware yet! Of course, SWE jobs are on the chopping block for the same reasons, but I claim that AI art models are ahead of AI coding models in terms of quality and flexibility.

GeneralMaximus 2y ago

> Welcome to being old! This has nothing to do with age. I have an iPad Pro that I barely use because it has been designed for use cases that I just don't have. I don't do any digital art, don't take handwritten notes, and don't need to scan and/or mark up documents very often. I don't edit photos or videos often enough to need a completely separate device for the task. I mostly use my computers for software development, which is impossible on an iPad. I tried running my dev tools inside an iSH session, and also on a remote Linux box that I could SSH into. It wasn't a great experience. Why do this when I could just run VS Code or WebStorm on a Mac? I also write a lot -- fiction, blog posts, journal entries, reading notes -- which should technically be possible to do well on the iPad. In practice there just aren't enough powerful apps for serious long-form writing on a tablet. Microsoft Word on iPad lacks most of the features of its desktop counterpart, Scrivener doesn't support cloud sync properly, iA Writer is too limited if you're writing anything over a few thousand words, and Obsidian's UI just doesn't work well on a touch device. The only viable app is Ulysses, which is ... okay, I guess? If it floats your boat. I sometimes do music production. This is now possible on the iPad via Logic Pro. I suppose I could give it a try, but what does that get me? I already own an Ableton license and a couple of nice VSTs, none of which transfers over to the iPad. I can also download random third-party apps to manipulate audio on my Mac, or mess around with Max4Live, or use my Push 2 to make music. Again, this stuff doesn't work on an iPad and it never will, because the APIs to enable these things simply don't exist. There are tons of people who use Windows because they need to use proprietary Windows-based CAD software. Or people who need the full desktop version of Excel to do their jobs. Or academics and researchers who need Python/R to crunch data. All of these people might LOVE to use something like these new iPads, but they can't because iPadOS just can't meet their use cases. I really like the idea of a convertible tablet that can support touch, stylus, keyboard, and pointer input. The iPad does a great job at being this device as far as hardware and system software is concerned. But unfortunately, it's too limited for a the kinds of workflows people using laptops/desktops need to do.

themagician 2y ago
It's okay. It happens to all of us.

faeriechangling 2y ago

It's not a matter of being young or old, it's that iPadOS is not tooled to be a productive machine for software developers, but IS tooled to be productive machine for artists.