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Apple's sections about the environment in their announcements always makes me feel like I'm being gaslit as they mention anything but repair and supporting the

by a2128 2y ago

Apple's sections about the environment in their announcements always makes me feel like I'm being gaslit as they mention anything but repair and supporting the consumer's right to reduce and re-use

cjk2 2y ago
The iPad is the notable omission from the Self Service Repair thing they are doing. I suspect it's just classified as disposable/recyclable. (yes this annoys me)
- sp332 2y ago
  The larger one is 5.1mm thick. There aren't separate components any more, it's a smear of glue with some silicon and batteries suspended in it.
- ncr100 2y ago
  AH could that be why their "thinnest iPad" advertisement was to crush usable piano, metronome, etc? the iPad division // department does NOT respect reuse?
ninininino 2y ago
I think the source of your sort of unconscious discomfort is because corporate speak is not about truth or justice or any moral/ethical system, it's about reputation-management of the firm and profit. They usually won't make direct provable lies, but will leave out any information that does not boost their reputation even if it's relevant or contradicts their messaging. But importantly, they are appealing to a sense of moral virtue when they brag about environmental responsibility or privacy, even if they aren't taking a lens of truth and justice to their analysis and messaging, but a biased one that ultimately favors profit. This dissonance in tone vs real motive is really painful to people who care about nuance and truth and moral good, because it means they muddy the waters of what is right and wrong and confuse us.
gorwell 2y ago
They're bold enough to say they're carbon neutral. "Today, Apple is carbon neutral for global corporate operations, and by 2030, plans to be carbon neutral across the entire manufacturing supply chain and life cycle of every product."
- coldtea 2y ago
  Carbon neutral never really meant anything anyway. And Apple's "Green" talk is just theater (well, just like everybody elses in tech, fashion, cars, etc). Their whole business lies in making and selling more stuff, and getting people to replace them often with shiny new ones.
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    What’s the opposite of carbon neutral? That is to say, how much more damage could Apple be doing to the environment if they ended all of their current “Green talk” practices? They’re a business and they’re going to sell things no matter what, would you rather have them do nothing to mitigate the environmental damage, or have them do something?
    - coldtea 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - nozzlegear 2y ago
        You and I both know that would never happen. You can moralize and blame consumerism all you want, but the reality is people want these devices and that’s why they buy them. Apple would be hurting the environment further by eliminating their green practices, because nobody who is concerned about the environment buys an iPhone and thinks “yes, this is enough what I have done, I will do no further.”
        coldtea 2y ago
        >You and I both know that would never happen The inevitable has a way of happening regardless of whether they'd "let it" happen... So if it doesn't happen by consumer choice it will just happen by environmental catastrophes forcing it...
musictubes 2y ago
Unpopular opinion here but Apple’s approach to environmental stuff is more right than wrong. The biggest environmental impact of devices are in the manufacturing and disposel of them. At Apple’s scale all of the things they do add up. Their use of recycled materials, elimination of certain more toxic materials, and even just making lighter products and packaging all help. At a minimum, those efforts are better than not having them and seem to be more than any other manufacturer is willing to do. Apple has set a goal to have a closed production loop, using only materials that they have recycled from older ones. That’s really ambitious and I doubt they’ll get there 100% but once again, what other company is even trying that? Usually the only thing people can point to for Apple not being as green as they’d like is the repairability of the products. I’m willing to bet that whatever additional waste that is created by that is more than offset by having devices that last longer. Devices that require fewer repairs and have good software support allows either you, or whoever gets your old devices, to keep using the same device for longer. Every device has a lifecycle, making it as long as possible is the best way to avoid environmental impacts.
- goosedragons 2y ago
  They're doing a horrible job. You're right that the biggest environmental impact is manufacturing and disposal. But keeping a device running longer is better than manufacturing a new one from recycled parts . The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really needed to keep a device in service for a few years longer. Not to mention stuff like just being able to actually replace the keyboard in any reasonable fashion, etc. There's really very very little reason for all the Macs at least to not have M.2 slots besides letting Apple save pennies on SSD controller costs and convincing users to spring for overpriced upgrades. Even the iPad could probably use an M.2 SSD! The Surface Pros do!
  - seryoiupfurds 2y ago
    If it takes 2% more materials to make the components upgradeable, but only 1% of users will do it over the device's lifetime, then that's a net loss for the environment. I don't like it either and I'm not sure I agree, but that's probably their logic.
steve1977 2y ago
Yeah their Watch bands are made of recycled plastic and they don’t use leather anymore. But the quality of the bands is often so bad that you have to replace them after a year or even only some months.
- jq-r 2y ago
  And the phone cases became overpriced junk.
- lancesells 2y ago
  I bought a braided solo loop of theirs and it became stretched out within 5 months. I didn't do anything but take it off my hand each night to charge it. If that's the norm, and the Apple store employee made it seem that way, they shouldn't even sell them.
  - steve1977 2y ago
    Same experience here.
  - davidf18 2y ago
    [dead]
nozzlegear 2y ago
Personally I think it’s better to do some good for the environment than no good for the environment. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. They should absolutely let us repair every device, but I’m glad they make the environmental efforts they currently do as well.
- kobe_bryant 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    Being alive is inherently bad for the environment, and yet – by and large – all humans strive to do it every day. For the most part, I'm convinced that this is a net positive.
    - kobe_bryant 2y ago
      I wouldnt compare that to only getting a new iphone model every 5 years
ncr100 2y ago
Repulsive, how the FIRST introductory scene today was them CRUSHING perfectly usable products. * https://twitter.com/nobi/status/1787888454849966295 https://twitter.com/nobi/status/1787888454849966295 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntjkwIXWtrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntjkwIXWtrc They crushed paint, a piano, toys, and much much more. All in the name of a convenient marketing ploy around "thinness." Seems anti-reuse to me.

by a2128 2y ago

Apple's sections about the environment in their announcements always makes me feel like I'm being gaslit as they mention anything but repair and supporting the consumer's right to reduce and re-use

cjk2 2y ago

The iPad is the notable omission from the Self Service Repair thing they are doing. I suspect it's just classified as disposable/recyclable. (yes this annoys me)

sp332 2y ago
The larger one is 5.1mm thick. There aren't separate components any more, it's a smear of glue with some silicon and batteries suspended in it.
ncr100 2y ago
AH could that be why their "thinnest iPad" advertisement was to crush usable piano, metronome, etc? the iPad division // department does NOT respect reuse?

ninininino 2y ago

I think the source of your sort of unconscious discomfort is because corporate speak is not about truth or justice or any moral/ethical system, it's about reputation-management of the firm and profit. They usually won't make direct provable lies, but will leave out any information that does not boost their reputation even if it's relevant or contradicts their messaging. But importantly, they are appealing to a sense of moral virtue when they brag about environmental responsibility or privacy, even if they aren't taking a lens of truth and justice to their analysis and messaging, but a biased one that ultimately favors profit. This dissonance in tone vs real motive is really painful to people who care about nuance and truth and moral good, because it means they muddy the waters of what is right and wrong and confuse us.

gorwell 2y ago

They're bold enough to say they're carbon neutral. "Today, Apple is carbon neutral for global corporate operations, and by 2030, plans to be carbon neutral across the entire manufacturing supply chain and life cycle of every product."

coldtea 2y ago
Carbon neutral never really meant anything anyway. And Apple's "Green" talk is just theater (well, just like everybody elses in tech, fashion, cars, etc). Their whole business lies in making and selling more stuff, and getting people to replace them often with shiny new ones.
- nozzlegear 2y ago
  What’s the opposite of carbon neutral? That is to say, how much more damage could Apple be doing to the environment if they ended all of their current “Green talk” practices? They’re a business and they’re going to sell things no matter what, would you rather have them do nothing to mitigate the environmental damage, or have them do something?
  - coldtea 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - nozzlegear 2y ago
      You and I both know that would never happen. You can moralize and blame consumerism all you want, but the reality is people want these devices and that’s why they buy them. Apple would be hurting the environment further by eliminating their green practices, because nobody who is concerned about the environment buys an iPhone and thinks “yes, this is enough what I have done, I will do no further.”
      - coldtea 2y ago
        >You and I both know that would never happen The inevitable has a way of happening regardless of whether they'd "let it" happen... So if it doesn't happen by consumer choice it will just happen by environmental catastrophes forcing it...

musictubes 2y ago

Unpopular opinion here but Apple’s approach to environmental stuff is more right than wrong. The biggest environmental impact of devices are in the manufacturing and disposel of them. At Apple’s scale all of the things they do add up. Their use of recycled materials, elimination of certain more toxic materials, and even just making lighter products and packaging all help. At a minimum, those efforts are better than not having them and seem to be more than any other manufacturer is willing to do. Apple has set a goal to have a closed production loop, using only materials that they have recycled from older ones. That’s really ambitious and I doubt they’ll get there 100% but once again, what other company is even trying that? Usually the only thing people can point to for Apple not being as green as they’d like is the repairability of the products. I’m willing to bet that whatever additional waste that is created by that is more than offset by having devices that last longer. Devices that require fewer repairs and have good software support allows either you, or whoever gets your old devices, to keep using the same device for longer. Every device has a lifecycle, making it as long as possible is the best way to avoid environmental impacts.

goosedragons 2y ago
They're doing a horrible job. You're right that the biggest environmental impact is manufacturing and disposal. But keeping a device running longer is better than manufacturing a new one from recycled parts . The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really needed to keep a device in service for a few years longer. Not to mention stuff like just being able to actually replace the keyboard in any reasonable fashion, etc. There's really very very little reason for all the Macs at least to not have M.2 slots besides letting Apple save pennies on SSD controller costs and convincing users to spring for overpriced upgrades. Even the iPad could probably use an M.2 SSD! The Surface Pros do!
- seryoiupfurds 2y ago
  If it takes 2% more materials to make the components upgradeable, but only 1% of users will do it over the device's lifetime, then that's a net loss for the environment. I don't like it either and I'm not sure I agree, but that's probably their logic.

steve1977 2y ago

Yeah their Watch bands are made of recycled plastic and they don’t use leather anymore. But the quality of the bands is often so bad that you have to replace them after a year or even only some months.

jq-r 2y ago
And the phone cases became overpriced junk.
lancesells 2y ago
I bought a braided solo loop of theirs and it became stretched out within 5 months. I didn't do anything but take it off my hand each night to charge it. If that's the norm, and the Apple store employee made it seem that way, they shouldn't even sell them.
- steve1977 2y ago
  Same experience here.
- davidf18 2y ago
  [dead]

nozzlegear 2y ago

Personally I think it’s better to do some good for the environment than no good for the environment. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. They should absolutely let us repair every device, but I’m glad they make the environmental efforts they currently do as well.

kobe_bryant 2y ago
[flagged]
- nozzlegear 2y ago
  Being alive is inherently bad for the environment, and yet – by and large – all humans strive to do it every day. For the most part, I'm convinced that this is a net positive.
  - kobe_bryant 2y ago
    I wouldnt compare that to only getting a new iphone model every 5 years

ncr100 2y ago

Repulsive, how the FIRST introductory scene today was them CRUSHING perfectly usable products. * https://twitter.com/nobi/status/1787888454849966295 https://twitter.com/nobi/status/1787888454849966295 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntjkwIXWtrc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntjkwIXWtrc They crushed paint, a piano, toys, and much much more. All in the name of a convenient marketing ploy around "thinness." Seems anti-reuse to me.