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The coding interview looks different when you view it for what it would be called in other industries: a licensure examination. It looks particularly insane to

• shrimp_emoji 2y ago
  Yeah, but the variation can be good. If I had to imagine what the hypothetical licensing process would be, I imagine it would be something easy that admits tons of mediocre devs. Plus, would it come in different language/subfield flavors to account for different roles? One job would ask me to implement a custom allocator, and I'd pass; another would ask me how to add Frondle to Artifactory, and I'd fail miserably.
  • parpfish 2y ago
    Actual engineering licenses in the US have kind of solved this. There’s the easy exam that pretty much everyone passes eh e they get their degree (the FE), and then there’s the hard one that not even everyone attempts after a couple years of experience (the PE). And within each level, you specify your discipline (civil, mechanical, etc) and then are required to have deeper knowledge of several subfields within that discipline.
    • tracker1 2y ago
      Difficult to apply a lot of that, when in reality there are nearly infinite combinations of domain knowledge, software knowledge, architecture knowledge with languages and platforms. Some requiring more or less depth than others. Software is a craft discipline... it would be better organized as a guild with reputation at stake in concert with endorsements. But then you risk what is effectively nepotism and politics.
      • parpfish 2y ago
        you don't think other engineering disciplines have countless sub-areas of expertise?
        • tracker1 2y ago
          I don't think other areas of engineering see the tooling options double every other year.
          • pseudalopex 2y ago
            The sort of interview being discussed doesn't test knowledge of the latest tooling.
  • teeray 2y ago
    > I imagine it would be something easy that admits tons of mediocre devs Given that Medical boards and the Bar strike fear into the hearts of students and demand immense preparation, I think we could do pretty well. The test prep mentality isn’t altogether different from the “grinding leetcode” that happens today anyway. The difference is that it would at least be fair.
• citizen_friend 2y ago
  - licensing ensures only a minimum level of quality - people with licenses still do interviews, often just as grueling - licensed careers with high performers (lawyers, doctors, ib, etc) have other forms of filtering which are much more painful, like years of low pay internships Studying for a few weeks to solve fun puzzles to make 400k sounds like a deal to me.
  • cenamus 2y ago
    Hearing from people that did internships in other fields for almost nothing, during which CS students make more than most workers really drove that point home for me.
  • gedy 2y ago
    Maybe for the devs, but "solves fun puzzles" is not a measure of quality either. The number of people who "aced the interview" but are borderline worthless for real product development is not trivial in my experience.
    • citizen_friend 2y ago
      I still haven’t met the guy who is an algorithms genius who can’t program, but I can guarantee a license isn’t going to solve that problem.
      • HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
        But being able to program is table stakes to be an effective developer. There better be a lot more to the interview if you are hoping to find rounded developers with proven experience at the level you are hiring for.
        • citizen_friend 2y ago
          For engineers at the mid to low level where leet code dominates the trait to select for is ability to program and be reasonable to work with.
• siva7 2y ago
  It would be nice. There are already too many devs and if we can lower that number by controlling the licensing our wages would also stay very high.
  • rednerrus 2y ago
    We need our own AMA.
  • gwbas1c 2y ago
    I personally think an industry-wide license would be an easier filter than requiring a degree: Schools don't often teach what you need to know, and sitting for an exam is a lot easier for the "I've been in the industry XX years without a degree." It would also be easier for the industry to settle on some filters in the exam to block people who just SPAM job postings. For example, open jobs for doctors are only posted on websites that are available to doctors. There is no way for the general public to SPAM job listings for doctors.
• roenxi 2y ago
  The roughest outline for hiring as far as I can follow it is start with 100 resumes, filter it down to 10 by picking ones that are nicely formatted, then filter down to 1 by interviewing. Each level of filtering should be structured so that it biases towards technical competence. It isn't really a licensure examination because, as you point out, the industry doesn't bother to put the resources in to make sure anything is systemically analysed. It is a process to balance supply and demand of jobs.
  • mucle6 2y ago
    90% of the filter is resume formatting!!!? I'm open to hear your experience but that sounds like an arbitrary filter which limits your pool more than it selects for talent
    • tracker1 2y ago
      It can depend, but yeah.. when you're filling 1-2 jobs and have a stack of 500 resumes, you're going to do quick filtering based on some pretty arbitrary decisions. Worse is that the recruiting companies will often do weird things to any formatting you have done. If even 50% of the applicants are technically qualified, dumping 90% at random is still likely to get you where you need faster. It's worth taking the time to ensure your formatting is consistent, with no/few spelling and grammatical issues. It will also vary by market/location. If you're looking at jobs local to you, it could be very different, especially for those jobs wanting domain experience. Different business sectors also congregate around adjacent businesses... so the choices and technology in one City will vary greatly to other Cities. As will the development process itself.
  • humansareok1 2y ago
    Missed the step where they filter out anyone w/o a degree in CS from MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC/CMU.
    • tracker1 2y ago
      As someone with no formal degree, but approaching 3 decades of experience, this last (recent) job search was rather brutal. Not enough feedback to know if/what was going on. Could be lack of formal education, could be my age (legal or not).
• thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > It also looks supremely unfair to have proctors for this exam with varying expectations and training to actually correctly administer it. Those are your top two problems? When was the last time you saw an exam where the proctor was expected to hold a conversation with the examinees?
• manlobster 2y ago
  You could view the trial-by-Leetcode that people undergo when they switch jobs every 4 years or so as a form of relicensing. One advantage that the current setup has over officially proctored examinations is that you get to try again repeatedly until you are successful.
  • pseudalopex 2y ago
    Other industries do not require repeating the license exam. Many have continuing education or other professional development requirements. These can be expensive and time consuming but not difficult generally. Real licenses do not expire without notice. Real license exams are more consistent, have clear pass criteria, and have higher pass rates.