4 ms·

I sincerely hope this whole Boeing debacle will be used as wake-up call for other large corporations, or the general public. Most of them are not as safety-cri

I sincerely hope this whole Boeing debacle will be used as wake-up call for other large corporations, or the general public. Most of them are not as safety-critical, but some of them are, thinking about Big Pharma and Chemical giants...

ItsBob 2y ago
Not sure what you mean: there have, to-date, been no repercussions for Boeing! They're getting away with all kinds of shit here! In an ideal world, companies with a massive safety-related function should have Warhammer 40k gun servitors hovering over the execs in the event they cut corners on safety with orders to empty the clip! Boeing are really a gov extension these days from what I can see.
- clarionbell 2y ago
  I vote for the servitors. Either that or an arco-flagellant on quick dispatch for the entire room. That aside, yes, Boeing and in EU Airbus are very much intertwined with government. It's inevitable when their products are strategically important and barriers to entry high. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.
  - decafninja 2y ago
    Better to lobotomize the entire c-suite into servitors for tech heresy.
- itsanaccount 2y ago
  https://www.pewpewtactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Magazine-and-Clips-1536x1026.jpg https://www.pewpewtactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ma... Clips help fill internal magazines on older weapons. A servitor drone would have a magazine. Just being pendantic but I think you'd want "dump a mag into c-suite executives found guilty of corruption in safety critical industries." I'd also say since we don't currently have servitor drones we may have to do it ourselves. In an ideal world of course.
  - decafninja 2y ago
    In an ideal 40k world, the c-suite would already have been lobotomized into servitors to serve penance for tech heresy.
- humanlion87 2y ago
  I wouldn't say they haven't had any repercussions. The whole 737 Max debacle cost them an estimated $20 billion (https://web.archive.org/web/20201221001329/https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/business/boeing-737-max-grounding-cost/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20201221001329/https://www.cnn.c...). But I do agree that overall there needs to be more repercussions. Unfortunately they are a "too big to fail" kind of company considering how critical they are to the aviation industry as a whole.
- is_true 2y ago
  For the military boeing is too big to fail.
pjc50 2y ago
Accountability seems to be slower in the pharma industry, but it did come for Theranos and Purdue. There doesn't seem to be the same kind of safety issue, only horrific pricing issues and a complicated supply problem for certain kinds of medications.
- jtc331 2y ago
  I don’t see how we can say that pharmaceuticals don’t have serious safety issues. Consider Vioxx: > Merck withdrew the drug after disclosures that it withheld information about rofecoxib's risks from doctors and patients for over five years, allegedly resulting in between 88,000 and 140,000 cases of serious heart disease.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    Vioxx is fine. Just improper disclosures. Many patients who it was right for lost out because of the withdrawal
- admissionsguy 2y ago
  Noting though that barring extreme cases, a safety issue with a batch of drugs would be really hard to detect.
sidewndr46 2y ago
I'd hope it'd be a signal that we can't allow an industry to regulate itself
- isolli 2y ago
  We already had a strong and clear signal from the financial industry in 2008...
bluSCALE4 2y ago
I will say it's having an impact on me personally. In the tech world, we work in 2 week Sprints and Sprints have Stories. Stories are Pointed efforts rated on level of effort that need to be completed within a single Sprints. Developers can only be allotted X number of Points per Sprint. If stories aren't done, then you usually need to reflect on why and improve, typically breaking down high pointed stories into smaller ones. The problem with many organizations face is that instead of leaving a Story open and answering the why, they'll simply close the problem Story and open a new one with the missed worked. This causes problems all over the place and snowballs if not addressed. In my situation, we also cancelled Retros so concerns weren't being raised further compounding things and finger pointing. So what may have started as an over zealous developer with a well intentioned manager can become a trend leading to missed deadlines, cut corners and defective code making it to production. I started to realize that I was no different than Boeing; that I was Boeing and that hasn't sat right with me. So for better or worse, I'm going to be more vocal about things.
- maskil 2y ago
  Except that people aren't dying as a result
  - Gareth321 2y ago
    Yes, this is all about risk tolerance. If a component on a website doesn't function as expected, it rarely kills people. Flight engineering should have the lowest risk tolerance possible. This is expensive, but necessary.
  - albrewer 2y ago
    Joke's on you, he works on engineering software used in a highly safety critical industry! /s
- GartzenDeHaes 2y ago
  Managers with spreadsheets are the cause in both cases though?
masklinn 2y ago
> I sincerely hope this whole Boeing debacle will be used as wake-up call for other large corporations Why would it? Stock's still up from 2016, higher than Airbus has ever been and those who sold between 2018 and 2020 made absolute bank. It's not hurt any current board or C-suite member to say nothing of those who actually taken the strategic decisions leading to the current fallout, I've not seen anyone seriously suggesting Stonecipher should be even mildly inconvenienced.
markus_zhang 2y ago
Unless the whole management got enough punishment, it's only going to serve as incentive for them to keep the old way. Like, put your feets into their shoes -- wouldn't you? By saying enough punishment, I meant at least something like Enron -- Exec went to jail, regulation people got slashed and hacked, company re-structured as we cannot afford to lose it.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I'm not a fan of industry "self-regulation." Everyone keeps calling for it (as opposed to government regulation), but these stories keep popping up. We need to have self-regulation success stories to be highlighted, if we want to go that way.

ItsBob 2y ago

Not sure what you mean: there have, to-date, been no repercussions for Boeing! They're getting away with all kinds of shit here! In an ideal world, companies with a massive safety-related function should have Warhammer 40k gun servitors hovering over the execs in the event they cut corners on safety with orders to empty the clip! Boeing are really a gov extension these days from what I can see.

clarionbell 2y ago
I vote for the servitors. Either that or an arco-flagellant on quick dispatch for the entire room. That aside, yes, Boeing and in EU Airbus are very much intertwined with government. It's inevitable when their products are strategically important and barriers to entry high. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.
- decafninja 2y ago
  Better to lobotomize the entire c-suite into servitors for tech heresy.
itsanaccount 2y ago
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Magazine-and-Clips-1536x1026.jpg https://www.pewpewtactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ma... Clips help fill internal magazines on older weapons. A servitor drone would have a magazine. Just being pendantic but I think you'd want "dump a mag into c-suite executives found guilty of corruption in safety critical industries." I'd also say since we don't currently have servitor drones we may have to do it ourselves. In an ideal world of course.
- decafninja 2y ago
  In an ideal 40k world, the c-suite would already have been lobotomized into servitors to serve penance for tech heresy.
humanlion87 2y ago
I wouldn't say they haven't had any repercussions. The whole 737 Max debacle cost them an estimated $20 billion (https://web.archive.org/web/20201221001329/https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/17/business/boeing-737-max-grounding-cost/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20201221001329/https://www.cnn.c...). But I do agree that overall there needs to be more repercussions. Unfortunately they are a "too big to fail" kind of company considering how critical they are to the aviation industry as a whole.
is_true 2y ago
For the military boeing is too big to fail.

pjc50 2y ago

Accountability seems to be slower in the pharma industry, but it did come for Theranos and Purdue. There doesn't seem to be the same kind of safety issue, only horrific pricing issues and a complicated supply problem for certain kinds of medications.

jtc331 2y ago
I don’t see how we can say that pharmaceuticals don’t have serious safety issues. Consider Vioxx: > Merck withdrew the drug after disclosures that it withheld information about rofecoxib's risks from doctors and patients for over five years, allegedly resulting in between 88,000 and 140,000 cases of serious heart disease.
- inemesitaffia 2y ago
  Vioxx is fine. Just improper disclosures. Many patients who it was right for lost out because of the withdrawal
admissionsguy 2y ago
Noting though that barring extreme cases, a safety issue with a batch of drugs would be really hard to detect.

sidewndr46 2y ago

I'd hope it'd be a signal that we can't allow an industry to regulate itself

isolli 2y ago
We already had a strong and clear signal from the financial industry in 2008...

bluSCALE4 2y ago

I will say it's having an impact on me personally. In the tech world, we work in 2 week Sprints and Sprints have Stories. Stories are Pointed efforts rated on level of effort that need to be completed within a single Sprints. Developers can only be allotted X number of Points per Sprint. If stories aren't done, then you usually need to reflect on why and improve, typically breaking down high pointed stories into smaller ones. The problem with many organizations face is that instead of leaving a Story open and answering the why, they'll simply close the problem Story and open a new one with the missed worked. This causes problems all over the place and snowballs if not addressed. In my situation, we also cancelled Retros so concerns weren't being raised further compounding things and finger pointing. So what may have started as an over zealous developer with a well intentioned manager can become a trend leading to missed deadlines, cut corners and defective code making it to production. I started to realize that I was no different than Boeing; that I was Boeing and that hasn't sat right with me. So for better or worse, I'm going to be more vocal about things.

maskil 2y ago
Except that people aren't dying as a result
- Gareth321 2y ago
  Yes, this is all about risk tolerance. If a component on a website doesn't function as expected, it rarely kills people. Flight engineering should have the lowest risk tolerance possible. This is expensive, but necessary.
- albrewer 2y ago
  Joke's on you, he works on engineering software used in a highly safety critical industry! /s
GartzenDeHaes 2y ago
Managers with spreadsheets are the cause in both cases though?

masklinn 2y ago

> I sincerely hope this whole Boeing debacle will be used as wake-up call for other large corporations Why would it? Stock's still up from 2016, higher than Airbus has ever been and those who sold between 2018 and 2020 made absolute bank. It's not hurt any current board or C-suite member to say nothing of those who actually taken the strategic decisions leading to the current fallout, I've not seen anyone seriously suggesting Stonecipher should be even mildly inconvenienced.

markus_zhang 2y ago

Unless the whole management got enough punishment, it's only going to serve as incentive for them to keep the old way. Like, put your feets into their shoes -- wouldn't you? By saying enough punishment, I meant at least something like Enron -- Exec went to jail, regulation people got slashed and hacked, company re-structured as we cannot afford to lose it.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

I'm not a fan of industry "self-regulation." Everyone keeps calling for it (as opposed to government regulation), but these stories keep popping up. We need to have self-regulation success stories to be highlighted, if we want to go that way.