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The main benefit of putting everything in one chat box that ambiguously does a bit of everything is the opportunity for the service to creatively misinterpret t

The main benefit of putting everything in one chat box that ambiguously does a bit of everything is the opportunity for the service to creatively misinterpret the query and present tangentially related sponsored content as a result. The clearer the design vocabulary you offer, the easier it is to unequivocally express what you want, the more obvious it becomes when you get something other than what you want. It's sort of a shame because we end up with these tools that are designed to inhibit and take away user agency rather than extend and advance it.

RunSet 3y ago
> It's sort of a shame because we end up with these tools that are designed to inhibit and take away user agency rather than extend and advance it. "Behold, we have improved the hammer by integrating an intelligent advertisement selection algorithm. Hence, to someone equipped with only this tool, the solution to all problems will seem to be money."
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  There's some Saphir-Whorf-adjacent things to be said here. If all you're able to express with clarity is purchase intent, how can you be anything other than a consumer?
  - roenxi 3y ago
    That seems to be a rhetorical question, but I'm going to pretend I didn't notice. You can purchase future income streams or a share of the revenue of an enterprise. Then you'd be an investor.
    - pineaux 3y ago
      "consumer" is sometimes used as codespeak left leaning circles meaning: someone who implicitly agrees with capitalism and uses it without much real criticism. So an "investor" of your type is just someone who is more of a consumer. As they consume not only food or housing for example, but they also consume investment opportunities.
      - beepbooptheory 3y ago
        I dont know who you are hanging out with but I really don't think people use "consumer" like that. You would end up removing like 90% of the most forceful critique of capitalism in general if "consumer" was something voluntary rather than coerced. It really wouldn't make any sense! That line of thinking sounds much more neoliberal than anything else, with the emphasis on the individual and their right/wrong behavior in the market.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  To be fair, the solution to most problems is indeed money.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Unfortunately, that also seems to be the cause of a couple of problems as well.
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      Just throw even more money at those problems too.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    How has that been working out of you?
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      As someone born poor, who was lucky enough to have a brain that made computer jobs a solid option: It's great. Going from 20 years of constant stress and scarcity mindset to knowing I could lose my job tomorrow and still sign a new lease without using up all my savings is wonderful. Financial security truly puts perspective on nearly all problems. Minor argument? Who the fuck cares I have a roof over my head. Someone's a jerk? So what, I can get services from someone else, I can afford it. My apartment explodes tomorrow? Oh well, I can put my family up in a hotel until we figure something out. Long term disability? Sucks but we have sufficient runway to figure out how to handle it. Like, I'm so sick and tired of privileged people pandering, just acting like people suffering needlessly should just be more satisfied with the scraps we leave them. The vast majority of humans experience all kinds of problems that would literally NOT EXIST with a little more money.
rjbwork 3y ago
>It's sort of a shame because we end up with these tools that are designed to inhibit and take away user agency rather than extend and advance it. People have asked for this. Let me explain. Incentives are important. They are what drive economic behavior. Companies tend to produce what the market incentivizes. The demand side of the market has shown an unwillingness to directly pay for much of consumer internet technology. Thus it has been produced in such a way as to monetize it in other ways. Ads, data aggregation and reselling, but mostly ads. Very few people are going to paid products that perform better and give users agency, thus incentivizing the market to continue to delivering what it is now, since that appears to be what users want.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  I have a pet theory that this is connected to stagnating wages over the last 40 years or so. If consumers had more disposable income they would be more willing to pay for software.
  - FridgeSeal 3y ago
    Also, the people making money off ads don’t have a lot of interest in someone paying some money, and then never seeing anymore ads again. They are in fact incentivised to continue the “ad supported is the only way” paradigm.
    - tacocataco 3y ago
      Just pay for it "Now introducing ads to your paid service. Dont like ads? You're in luck, We just introduced ad free tiers! Just purchase produkt++ for an additional $19.99 a month"
  - gary_0 3y ago
    Also because up until the mobile App Store walled gardens (and all the downsides they bring) arrived circa 2010, paying for software online was slow and awkward. And generally still is on desktop (except for games). Also because corporate software (ie. anything popular) had a tendency to start complicating the licensing terms. Sorry, that feature is not available in the Home edition. And nowadays you can't even buy a lot of software, you have to pay a recurring subscription.

RunSet 3y ago

> It's sort of a shame because we end up with these tools that are designed to inhibit and take away user agency rather than extend and advance it. "Behold, we have improved the hammer by integrating an intelligent advertisement selection algorithm. Hence, to someone equipped with only this tool, the solution to all problems will seem to be money."

marginalia_nu 3y ago
There's some Saphir-Whorf-adjacent things to be said here. If all you're able to express with clarity is purchase intent, how can you be anything other than a consumer?
- roenxi 3y ago
  That seems to be a rhetorical question, but I'm going to pretend I didn't notice. You can purchase future income streams or a share of the revenue of an enterprise. Then you'd be an investor.
  - pineaux 3y ago
    "consumer" is sometimes used as codespeak left leaning circles meaning: someone who implicitly agrees with capitalism and uses it without much real criticism. So an "investor" of your type is just someone who is more of a consumer. As they consume not only food or housing for example, but they also consume investment opportunities.
    - beepbooptheory 3y ago
      I dont know who you are hanging out with but I really don't think people use "consumer" like that. You would end up removing like 90% of the most forceful critique of capitalism in general if "consumer" was something voluntary rather than coerced. It really wouldn't make any sense! That line of thinking sounds much more neoliberal than anything else, with the emphasis on the individual and their right/wrong behavior in the market.
moffkalast 3y ago
To be fair, the solution to most problems is indeed money.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Unfortunately, that also seems to be the cause of a couple of problems as well.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    Just throw even more money at those problems too.
- coldtea 3y ago
  How has that been working out of you?
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    As someone born poor, who was lucky enough to have a brain that made computer jobs a solid option: It's great. Going from 20 years of constant stress and scarcity mindset to knowing I could lose my job tomorrow and still sign a new lease without using up all my savings is wonderful. Financial security truly puts perspective on nearly all problems. Minor argument? Who the fuck cares I have a roof over my head. Someone's a jerk? So what, I can get services from someone else, I can afford it. My apartment explodes tomorrow? Oh well, I can put my family up in a hotel until we figure something out. Long term disability? Sucks but we have sufficient runway to figure out how to handle it. Like, I'm so sick and tired of privileged people pandering, just acting like people suffering needlessly should just be more satisfied with the scraps we leave them. The vast majority of humans experience all kinds of problems that would literally NOT EXIST with a little more money.

rjbwork 3y ago

>It's sort of a shame because we end up with these tools that are designed to inhibit and take away user agency rather than extend and advance it. People have asked for this. Let me explain. Incentives are important. They are what drive economic behavior. Companies tend to produce what the market incentivizes. The demand side of the market has shown an unwillingness to directly pay for much of consumer internet technology. Thus it has been produced in such a way as to monetize it in other ways. Ads, data aggregation and reselling, but mostly ads. Very few people are going to paid products that perform better and give users agency, thus incentivizing the market to continue to delivering what it is now, since that appears to be what users want.

AlexandrB 3y ago
I have a pet theory that this is connected to stagnating wages over the last 40 years or so. If consumers had more disposable income they would be more willing to pay for software.
- FridgeSeal 3y ago
  Also, the people making money off ads don’t have a lot of interest in someone paying some money, and then never seeing anymore ads again. They are in fact incentivised to continue the “ad supported is the only way” paradigm.
  - tacocataco 3y ago
    Just pay for it "Now introducing ads to your paid service. Dont like ads? You're in luck, We just introduced ad free tiers! Just purchase produkt++ for an additional $19.99 a month"
- gary_0 3y ago
  Also because up until the mobile App Store walled gardens (and all the downsides they bring) arrived circa 2010, paying for software online was slow and awkward. And generally still is on desktop (except for games). Also because corporate software (ie. anything popular) had a tendency to start complicating the licensing terms. Sorry, that feature is not available in the Home edition. And nowadays you can't even buy a lot of software, you have to pay a recurring subscription.