3 ms·

This is fine but you have to realise that war isn’t just about bombs. It’s about information too. An information war. In order to make up your mind correctly yo

This is fine but you have to realise that war isn’t just about bombs. It’s about information too. An information war. In order to make up your mind correctly you need to be feed accurate information. Al Jazeera making up causality figures in real-time isn’t how you make up your mind.

objektif 3y ago
Do you really think say if you listen to US MSM you will make up your mind correctly?. They are constantly making up stuff and omitting facts to influence public opinion.
- bamboozled 3y ago
  Well at this point, I'm not so sure some of what I've seen on US MSM isn't created by foreign interference. Anyway, I get your point but the difference here is this, you're allowed to ask questions like that in the very places where this nonsense is being fabricated. That same toxic propaganda shouldn't be allowed to spread freely and unabated within our information space or we become those very dystopias we try to avoid. I think this blind belief that "all information" is part of "free speech" is our Achilles heel, it might destroy our country.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
chmod775 3y ago
> In order to make up your mind correctly you need to be feed accurate information. Haha. And we're going to let the government decide what is "correct" and "accurate"? Letting whoever is currently in power control what information the electorate has access to is one of the single biggest threats to democracy. > Al Jazeera making up causality figures in real-time isn’t how you make up your mind. The correct response is pointing out that their numbers are made up. In a working democracy you get people to see truth through public discourse, not censorship. Don't make a deal with the devil just to shut up the neighbor's annoying dog.
- chii 3y ago
  > In a working democracy you get people to see truth through public discourse, not censorship. in an idealistic world, this is true. Unfortunately, it is also empirically true that, at least in the USA, the majority of the voting population has become a bit dumb, and does not personally try to verify these things they see or hear on the news. Civic duty in democracy includes this sort of scrutiny, but sadly this level of critical thinking has been in decline in recent decades.
- bamboozled 3y ago
  Haha. And we're going to let the government decide what is "correct" and "accurate"? Ok, so how did all this unchecked exposure to propaganda workout for Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Palestine etc? Did it lead to some kind of "free thinking" utopia? Free speech hasn't been banned in Israel. Access to information hasn't been banned. What has been banned is a platform for foreign agents to easily negative influence their populace and to broadcast nonsense en masse to their people. If any Al Jazeera staff who have a residency permit want to walk the streets and discuss things their passionate about to other people, it will be allowed. But it won't be allowed if it turns out their being paid to do so by a foreign government. It's no different. Sorry to say this, but you have yet offered a sane alternative here. We can't just have autocrats from foreign countries broadcasting nonsense, unabated to whoever wants to listen, else our society will look no different to those dystopias. Domestic free speech within a democracy is one thing, foreign interference is another.
  - chmod775 3y ago
    > Ok, so how did all this unchecked exposure to propaganda workout for Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Palestine etc? Did it lead to some kind of "free thinking" utopia? You did not think this argument through. None of the aforementioned countries have free press. They censor heavily. In all of the above countries the government dictates what is "correct" and "accurate" information. News outlets saying anything else are shut down, banned, and journalists are sometimes jailed. All of these non-democracies are afraid of free press. Is that the company Israel wants to keep in this matter? > Access to information hasn't been banned [in Israel]. Al Jazeera is literally banned and blocked. > We can't just have autocrats from foreign countries broadcasting nonsense, unabated to whoever wants to listen, else our society will look no different to those dystopias. This defeatist argument leads to the conclusion that democracy cannot work. Democracy cannot work without free press, and according to you it cannot work if press is free from government interference. Is that what we want to do? Give up?
hugh-avherald 3y ago
[flagged]
janalsncm 3y ago
You’re absolutely correct about the information war bit. Facts are important. But another equally important component is what is withheld from the public. I think it would be a mistake to characterize the difference between Israeli media and pro Palestinian media as simply disagreeing about numbers. If we’ve learned anything about global conflict, numbers don’t mean anything to people. If all Al Jazeera were doing is putting a black text white background body count on screen, there would have been no issue. The difference is the images that are being depicted. People are moved by images of suffering. And depending on whose side you’d like to benefit, there’s plenty of suffering to show. This is likely one of the reasons Israel is shooting journalists. They might show pictures that complicate their black and white depiction of the conflict. It’s also a trap to say that showing one side diminishes the suffering of the other. Fundamentally, neither’s suffering is more important.

objektif 3y ago

Do you really think say if you listen to US MSM you will make up your mind correctly?. They are constantly making up stuff and omitting facts to influence public opinion.

bamboozled 3y ago
Well at this point, I'm not so sure some of what I've seen on US MSM isn't created by foreign interference. Anyway, I get your point but the difference here is this, you're allowed to ask questions like that in the very places where this nonsense is being fabricated. That same toxic propaganda shouldn't be allowed to spread freely and unabated within our information space or we become those very dystopias we try to avoid. I think this blind belief that "all information" is part of "free speech" is our Achilles heel, it might destroy our country.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

chmod775 3y ago

> In order to make up your mind correctly you need to be feed accurate information. Haha. And we're going to let the government decide what is "correct" and "accurate"? Letting whoever is currently in power control what information the electorate has access to is one of the single biggest threats to democracy. > Al Jazeera making up causality figures in real-time isn’t how you make up your mind. The correct response is pointing out that their numbers are made up. In a working democracy you get people to see truth through public discourse, not censorship. Don't make a deal with the devil just to shut up the neighbor's annoying dog.

chii 3y ago
> In a working democracy you get people to see truth through public discourse, not censorship. in an idealistic world, this is true. Unfortunately, it is also empirically true that, at least in the USA, the majority of the voting population has become a bit dumb, and does not personally try to verify these things they see or hear on the news. Civic duty in democracy includes this sort of scrutiny, but sadly this level of critical thinking has been in decline in recent decades.
bamboozled 3y ago
Haha. And we're going to let the government decide what is "correct" and "accurate"? Ok, so how did all this unchecked exposure to propaganda workout for Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Palestine etc? Did it lead to some kind of "free thinking" utopia? Free speech hasn't been banned in Israel. Access to information hasn't been banned. What has been banned is a platform for foreign agents to easily negative influence their populace and to broadcast nonsense en masse to their people. If any Al Jazeera staff who have a residency permit want to walk the streets and discuss things their passionate about to other people, it will be allowed. But it won't be allowed if it turns out their being paid to do so by a foreign government. It's no different. Sorry to say this, but you have yet offered a sane alternative here. We can't just have autocrats from foreign countries broadcasting nonsense, unabated to whoever wants to listen, else our society will look no different to those dystopias. Domestic free speech within a democracy is one thing, foreign interference is another.
- chmod775 3y ago
  > Ok, so how did all this unchecked exposure to propaganda workout for Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Palestine etc? Did it lead to some kind of "free thinking" utopia? You did not think this argument through. None of the aforementioned countries have free press. They censor heavily. In all of the above countries the government dictates what is "correct" and "accurate" information. News outlets saying anything else are shut down, banned, and journalists are sometimes jailed. All of these non-democracies are afraid of free press. Is that the company Israel wants to keep in this matter? > Access to information hasn't been banned [in Israel]. Al Jazeera is literally banned and blocked. > We can't just have autocrats from foreign countries broadcasting nonsense, unabated to whoever wants to listen, else our society will look no different to those dystopias. This defeatist argument leads to the conclusion that democracy cannot work. Democracy cannot work without free press, and according to you it cannot work if press is free from government interference. Is that what we want to do? Give up?

hugh-avherald 3y ago

[flagged]

janalsncm 3y ago

You’re absolutely correct about the information war bit. Facts are important. But another equally important component is what is withheld from the public. I think it would be a mistake to characterize the difference between Israeli media and pro Palestinian media as simply disagreeing about numbers. If we’ve learned anything about global conflict, numbers don’t mean anything to people. If all Al Jazeera were doing is putting a black text white background body count on screen, there would have been no issue. The difference is the images that are being depicted. People are moved by images of suffering. And depending on whose side you’d like to benefit, there’s plenty of suffering to show. This is likely one of the reasons Israel is shooting journalists. They might show pictures that complicate their black and white depiction of the conflict. It’s also a trap to say that showing one side diminishes the suffering of the other. Fundamentally, neither’s suffering is more important.