6 ms·

Don’t Linux people realize there are a limited number of people to work on these things in their spare time for free?

by pipeline_peak 2y ago

elcritch 2y ago
Perhaps the folks working on the project in what is presumably their spare time for free do know this?
- bitwize 2y ago
  The idea is that it's irresponsible to diffuse the limited amount of effort by launching your own desktop environment project rather than contributing your talents to one of KDE or GNOME. I don't ever see myself using this DE, but the fact that it seems to be one guy's labor of love kind of makes me happy.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    But presumably they aren’t interested in working on a part of a larger project that they have less creative and admin control over. This is a huge deal and precisely the answer to your question.
    - pipeline_peak 2y ago
      Something in the scale of a modern DE could become decrepit, outdated, and difficult to use real quick without major support. There’s more DE’s than I could shake a stick at and like 5 of them are usable for a an average user.
      - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
        Well, like it’s just your opinion, man… Opinions are like asses, everyone has their own.
      - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        As someone that uses the 5th most possible DE I appreciate the state of the landscape. But more to the point I think you’re not framing this correctly. I think this question is the best way to probe get to the heart of our disagreement: How would you coerce or incentivize the developers of this DE to work on a more mature project?
        pipeline_peak 2y ago
        > How would you coerce or incentivize the developers of this DE to work on a more mature project? Being a cog in a wheel is always a sacrifice, but also more successful. It’s more likely to be usable by regular people and overall more likely to be used. The biggest problem with desktop Linux is it’s a fragmentation of unpolished projects, many of which overlapping each other.
        prmoustache 2y ago
        Do you say the same of all photoshop alternatives or all different AI companies doing the same stuff...or even Apple building their own OS instead of providing their computers with Windows?
        lelanthran 2y ago
        >> How would you coerce or incentivize the developers of this DE to work on a more mature project? > Being a cog in a wheel is always a sacrifice, but also more successful. It’s more likely to be usable by regular people and overall more likely to be used. > The biggest problem with desktop Linux is it’s a fragmentation of unpolished projects, many of which overlapping each other. Maybe you didn't realise this, but you didn't actually answer the question: exactly how would you convince the people having fun writing their own little project to switch to being an unpaid employee on someone else's project? I want to hear the actual sentence you'd utter to convince someone to give up a hobby and become an unpaid employee. I mean, what could I possibly say to you that would make you give up cycling/TV/reading/art/gaming/$HOBBY and spend that time as an unpaid employee for me?
        2y ago
  - paiute 2y ago
    I slowed down on linux as KDE slowly degraded. I love that someone is starting something new, maybe it’ll go somewhere.
  - jstanley 2y ago
    > The idea is that it's irresponsible to diffuse the limited amount of effort by launching your own desktop environment project rather than contributing your talents to one of KDE or GNOME. This is totally wrong. The free software world is as great as it is precisely because everyone is free to start their own project without asking for permission. And I don't think you meant it this way, but can we please not make people feel irresponsible for pursuing projects they find interesting? That's an easy way to kill a new developer's interest, motivation, and enthusiasm. And they're sure not going to pursue projects they don't find interesting. If you have an idea for a project you want to work on: please go and do it! I don't care if there are already dozens of alternatives. Go forth and create. Maybe you'll make the new best version of the thing, maybe you won't. But you definitely won't if you don't try. And even if your version is no good, if you cultivate a habit of making things you want to make then you'll have the best chances, and at least in the end you'll have lived a life of creation rather than idle consumption.
    - zzo38computer 2y ago
      > If you have an idea for a project you want to work on: please go and do it! I don't care if there are already dozens of alternatives. Go forth and create. Maybe you'll make the new best version of the thing, maybe you won't. But you definitely won't if you don't try. And even if your version is no good, if you cultivate a habit of making things you want to make then you'll have the best chances, and at least in the end you'll have lived a life of creation rather than idle consumption. I agree. Furthermore: It might have some advantages compared with other programs even if it does not have all of the features or other advantages that the other one might have. Also, even if it is no good you or others might improve it later, anyways. There may also be reasons why one user or programmer might prefer to use one program than another, or even someone might use both if they really want to do.
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    > The idea is that it's irresponsible to diffuse the limited amount of effort by launching your own desktop environment project rather than contributing your talents to one of KDE or GNOME. That's just a different way for some people to complain that someone, somewhere, is having fun that they don't approve of. > I don't ever see myself using this DE, but the fact that it seems to be one guy's labor of love kind of makes me happy. Yup. I heartily support these kinds of things. I remember how much flack Terry Davis used to get on the internet, but those flamers have long since been forgotten by history while both he and TempleOS have their own Wikipedia entry. I still have "Use TempleOS daily for a month" on my bucket list :-/
    - nutrie 2y ago
      > That's just a different way for some people to complain that someone, somewhere, is having fun that they don't approve of. Yep, it ain't their business, period. It's like talking trash on people who like making pottery.
jzb 2y ago
In a perfect world, perhaps, everybody would align behind a single effort, and they would all agree on a vision and be able to all coordinate and work together effectively and make use of all of the time that everyone has available in the most efficient way possible. And they would all have exactly the right skills to fill all of the gaps, and there would be no overlap. But we do not live in that world. The idea that each person‘s efforts are interchangeable and can just be dropped into a project is mistaken.
- pipeline_peak 2y ago
  There are many numbers between 1 and 100 my friend.
  - grogenaut 2y ago
    There are just as many between 0 and 1 my friender friend
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Intermernet 2y ago
      Although this is true in a mathematical sense, it's also mathematically true that there are exactly 100 times as many numbers between 0 and 100 than between 0 and 1. Yay infinity!
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Nothing scares me more than people supposing authoritarian efficiency is the dream state. Open source is better because it's disjointed & chaotic. It's advantage is that it doesn't get stuck, is moving and changing. New ideas happen, are iterated upon. Different people try different things catering to different use cases/scenarios/users. Open source covering so much terrain so many ways is its strength. It's an enduring base of antifragility, by not being one unsinkable vast idea.
frankthepickle 2y ago
working on a project like this seems like a good way to learn and perfect skills you wouldn't be able to if you were working on a pipeline of issues for an existing package.
jjmarr 2y ago
Yep. That's why there are multiple distributions of the Linux Distribution Chooser. https://distrochooser.de/ https://distrochooser.de/ https://distrochooser.snehit.dev/ https://distrochooser.snehit.dev/ https://librehunt.org/ https://librehunt.org/
seanhunter 2y ago
It's very important to regulate what people do in their free time, otherwise they might just pick and choose to do whatever they want. Where would it end? Far better to have centrally-approved free time activities to ensure those limited people don't get to just enjoy themselves but are instead spending their limited free time wisely.
boffinAudio 2y ago
There are a lot more people out there than you realize. You might wanna double-check your Dunbar number ..
StrLght 2y ago
Why should "Linux people" realize that? Looking at other comments here I feel like you’re making a lot of assumptions about this project. I’d suggest to zoom out a bit instead and find a different perspective. I see a hobby project being built just for fun. Maybe author uses it daily themself, but they aren’t aiming it at a larger audience, that’s for sure. Not everything has to be pragmatic by your standards and useful to millions of people.

Don’t Linux people realize there are a limited number of people to work on these things in their spare time for free?

elcritch 2y ago

Perhaps the folks working on the project in what is presumably their spare time for free do know this?

bitwize 2y ago
The idea is that it's irresponsible to diffuse the limited amount of effort by launching your own desktop environment project rather than contributing your talents to one of KDE or GNOME. I don't ever see myself using this DE, but the fact that it seems to be one guy's labor of love kind of makes me happy.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  But presumably they aren’t interested in working on a part of a larger project that they have less creative and admin control over. This is a huge deal and precisely the answer to your question.
  - pipeline_peak 2y ago
    Something in the scale of a modern DE could become decrepit, outdated, and difficult to use real quick without major support. There’s more DE’s than I could shake a stick at and like 5 of them are usable for a an average user.
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      Well, like it’s just your opinion, man… Opinions are like asses, everyone has their own.
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      As someone that uses the 5th most possible DE I appreciate the state of the landscape. But more to the point I think you’re not framing this correctly. I think this question is the best way to probe get to the heart of our disagreement: How would you coerce or incentivize the developers of this DE to work on a more mature project?
      - pipeline_peak 2y ago
        > How would you coerce or incentivize the developers of this DE to work on a more mature project? Being a cog in a wheel is always a sacrifice, but also more successful. It’s more likely to be usable by regular people and overall more likely to be used. The biggest problem with desktop Linux is it’s a fragmentation of unpolished projects, many of which overlapping each other.
        prmoustache 2y ago
        Do you say the same of all photoshop alternatives or all different AI companies doing the same stuff...or even Apple building their own OS instead of providing their computers with Windows?
        lelanthran 2y ago
        >> How would you coerce or incentivize the developers of this DE to work on a more mature project? > Being a cog in a wheel is always a sacrifice, but also more successful. It’s more likely to be usable by regular people and overall more likely to be used. > The biggest problem with desktop Linux is it’s a fragmentation of unpolished projects, many of which overlapping each other. Maybe you didn't realise this, but you didn't actually answer the question: exactly how would you convince the people having fun writing their own little project to switch to being an unpaid employee on someone else's project? I want to hear the actual sentence you'd utter to convince someone to give up a hobby and become an unpaid employee. I mean, what could I possibly say to you that would make you give up cycling/TV/reading/art/gaming/$HOBBY and spend that time as an unpaid employee for me?
        2y ago
- paiute 2y ago
  I slowed down on linux as KDE slowly degraded. I love that someone is starting something new, maybe it’ll go somewhere.
- jstanley 2y ago
  > The idea is that it's irresponsible to diffuse the limited amount of effort by launching your own desktop environment project rather than contributing your talents to one of KDE or GNOME. This is totally wrong. The free software world is as great as it is precisely because everyone is free to start their own project without asking for permission. And I don't think you meant it this way, but can we please not make people feel irresponsible for pursuing projects they find interesting? That's an easy way to kill a new developer's interest, motivation, and enthusiasm. And they're sure not going to pursue projects they don't find interesting. If you have an idea for a project you want to work on: please go and do it! I don't care if there are already dozens of alternatives. Go forth and create. Maybe you'll make the new best version of the thing, maybe you won't. But you definitely won't if you don't try. And even if your version is no good, if you cultivate a habit of making things you want to make then you'll have the best chances, and at least in the end you'll have lived a life of creation rather than idle consumption.
  - zzo38computer 2y ago
    > If you have an idea for a project you want to work on: please go and do it! I don't care if there are already dozens of alternatives. Go forth and create. Maybe you'll make the new best version of the thing, maybe you won't. But you definitely won't if you don't try. And even if your version is no good, if you cultivate a habit of making things you want to make then you'll have the best chances, and at least in the end you'll have lived a life of creation rather than idle consumption. I agree. Furthermore: It might have some advantages compared with other programs even if it does not have all of the features or other advantages that the other one might have. Also, even if it is no good you or others might improve it later, anyways. There may also be reasons why one user or programmer might prefer to use one program than another, or even someone might use both if they really want to do.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > The idea is that it's irresponsible to diffuse the limited amount of effort by launching your own desktop environment project rather than contributing your talents to one of KDE or GNOME. That's just a different way for some people to complain that someone, somewhere, is having fun that they don't approve of. > I don't ever see myself using this DE, but the fact that it seems to be one guy's labor of love kind of makes me happy. Yup. I heartily support these kinds of things. I remember how much flack Terry Davis used to get on the internet, but those flamers have long since been forgotten by history while both he and TempleOS have their own Wikipedia entry. I still have "Use TempleOS daily for a month" on my bucket list :-/
  - nutrie 2y ago
    > That's just a different way for some people to complain that someone, somewhere, is having fun that they don't approve of. Yep, it ain't their business, period. It's like talking trash on people who like making pottery.

jzb 2y ago

In a perfect world, perhaps, everybody would align behind a single effort, and they would all agree on a vision and be able to all coordinate and work together effectively and make use of all of the time that everyone has available in the most efficient way possible. And they would all have exactly the right skills to fill all of the gaps, and there would be no overlap. But we do not live in that world. The idea that each person‘s efforts are interchangeable and can just be dropped into a project is mistaken.

pipeline_peak 2y ago
There are many numbers between 1 and 100 my friend.
- grogenaut 2y ago
  There are just as many between 0 and 1 my friender friend
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Intermernet 2y ago
    Although this is true in a mathematical sense, it's also mathematically true that there are exactly 100 times as many numbers between 0 and 100 than between 0 and 1. Yay infinity!
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Nothing scares me more than people supposing authoritarian efficiency is the dream state. Open source is better because it's disjointed & chaotic. It's advantage is that it doesn't get stuck, is moving and changing. New ideas happen, are iterated upon. Different people try different things catering to different use cases/scenarios/users. Open source covering so much terrain so many ways is its strength. It's an enduring base of antifragility, by not being one unsinkable vast idea.

frankthepickle 2y ago

working on a project like this seems like a good way to learn and perfect skills you wouldn't be able to if you were working on a pipeline of issues for an existing package.

jjmarr 2y ago

Yep. That's why there are multiple distributions of the Linux Distribution Chooser. https://distrochooser.de/ https://distrochooser.de/ https://distrochooser.snehit.dev/ https://distrochooser.snehit.dev/ https://librehunt.org/ https://librehunt.org/

seanhunter 2y ago

It's very important to regulate what people do in their free time, otherwise they might just pick and choose to do whatever they want. Where would it end? Far better to have centrally-approved free time activities to ensure those limited people don't get to just enjoy themselves but are instead spending their limited free time wisely.

boffinAudio 2y ago

There are a lot more people out there than you realize. You might wanna double-check your Dunbar number ..

StrLght 2y ago

Why should "Linux people" realize that? Looking at other comments here I feel like you’re making a lot of assumptions about this project. I’d suggest to zoom out a bit instead and find a different perspective. I see a hobby project being built just for fun. Maybe author uses it daily themself, but they aren’t aiming it at a larger audience, that’s for sure. Not everything has to be pragmatic by your standards and useful to millions of people.