3 ms·

Just a minor counter- point… bollards are great for keeping cars out of places they don’t belong. But bollards on bike paths can be deadly to cyclist. My area

Just a minor counter- point… bollards are great for keeping cars out of places they don’t belong. But bollards on bike paths can be deadly to cyclist. My area used to place them at path-street crossings, to keep cars from turning onto the bike path, but after a few cyclists clipped them and died, the bollards were removed. The incidence of cars turning onto the bike path is low enough they weren’t worth the risk to non-cars.

senkora 3y ago
I am curious how the bollards were deadly to the cyclists (I'm not saying I disagree, I just don't understand the mechanism). Maybe they were just going a lot faster than I'm thinking of? The primary bike path that I use for commuting is the Hudson River Bike Path in Lower Manhattan, and there are bollards there at every intersection as a reaction to this terrorist attack: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/sayfullo-saipov-be-sentenced-life-prison-2017-truck-attack-isis#:~:text=On%20Halloween%20afternoon%20in%202017,14%2Dyear%2Dold%20child https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/sayfullo-saipov-be-sent.... I sometimes find the bollards annoying, but I can't disagree with the city for placing them after that...
- alistairSH 3y ago
  They were cente-trail (what would be the physical centerline, though there was no lane marking) about 5” in/back from the road surface. A car could get up onto the sidewalk that’s parallel to the road before striking the bollard. So, a cyclist would have to pass the bollards before stopping to check for traffic. I assume they clipped the bollard, lost control, and either ran into the road or something like that. This was 20 years ago now, so I don’t remember details.
  - egypturnash 3y ago
    The bollards were right in the middle of the cycle path?!? Yeah that's some shitty placement that's gonna endanger the cyclist by shoving them out into traffic.
    - gpm 3y ago
      Yeah bollards right in the middle of the cycle path are unfortunately common around here.
    - mnutt 3y ago
      They’re also significantly narrower than they need to be to stop a car: https://gothamist.com/news/security-measures-on-hudson-river-greenway-serve-as-reminder-of-terror-attack https://gothamist.com/news/security-measures-on-hudson-river... Still, I guess they’re better than the concrete jersey barriers they installed initially, and still have in some places along that route.
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Yeah, I guess that’s the non-thinking, car-driving traffic engineers solution to “if we put two bollards on the sides of the trail, there’s enough space for a car to go between them, so we’ll save some money while we make things SAFER.” The amount of stupid cycling infrastructure I see is pretty mind-blowing. It’s very obvious traffic engineers have zero interest in actually building multi-model infrastructure, instead just doing a box-checking exercise to get those federal road dollars.
      - adrianmonk 3y ago
        > the non-thinking, car-driving traffic engineers solution to “if we put two bollards on the sides of the trail, there’s enough space for a car to go between them, so we’ll save some money while we make things SAFER.” That doesn't make sense to me. The entire reason the bollard exists is to stop cars from turning into the bike path. It has nothing to do with non-thinking engineers. It has nothing to do with saving money. It's because if there's space for a car to fit between them, then the bollards will not fulfill their one and only purpose. EDIT: Note that I'm not saying that it's a good design. But I am saying it didn't come about for the reasons you're saying.
        rahimnathwani 3y ago
        It sounds like GP is assuming that a car is wider than the bike lane, so putting bollards on each side of the bike lane would stop cars, without blocking bikes from using the centre of the lane?
- loeg 3y ago
  E.g., https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/king-county-to-pay-10m-to-cyclist-paralyzed-in-bollard-crash/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/kin... (not a death, but you can see the similarity).
- otherme123 3y ago
  I knew a guy that was driving a small motorbike, when a car forced him to the right. He fell on a bollard like the ones shaped as pencils in the article linked, broken badly his chest and dying soon after. According to witnesses, the hit was at slow speeds, so it could happen to a bike.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Yeah there's a few "light" bollards on bike paths around here, mainly to keep cars off of them, and while they're plenty visible and won't stop a car at speed, they are unforgiving if you were to clip them with your bike.
Kuinox 3y ago
In country with decent civil engineering, we have soft bollards. It will still make a bike fall, but falling on it isn't life threatening. You can also twist the bollard when you are bored. The downside is that it probably doesn't stop a car with enough speed. https://i.imgur.com/Pe8Ih4C.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Pe8Ih4C.jpeg

senkora 3y ago

I am curious how the bollards were deadly to the cyclists (I'm not saying I disagree, I just don't understand the mechanism). Maybe they were just going a lot faster than I'm thinking of? The primary bike path that I use for commuting is the Hudson River Bike Path in Lower Manhattan, and there are bollards there at every intersection as a reaction to this terrorist attack: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/sayfullo-saipov-be-sentenced-life-prison-2017-truck-attack-isis#:~:text=On%20Halloween%20afternoon%20in%202017,14%2Dyear%2Dold%20child https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/sayfullo-saipov-be-sent.... I sometimes find the bollards annoying, but I can't disagree with the city for placing them after that...

alistairSH 3y ago
They were cente-trail (what would be the physical centerline, though there was no lane marking) about 5” in/back from the road surface. A car could get up onto the sidewalk that’s parallel to the road before striking the bollard. So, a cyclist would have to pass the bollards before stopping to check for traffic. I assume they clipped the bollard, lost control, and either ran into the road or something like that. This was 20 years ago now, so I don’t remember details.
- egypturnash 3y ago
  The bollards were right in the middle of the cycle path?!? Yeah that's some shitty placement that's gonna endanger the cyclist by shoving them out into traffic.
  - gpm 3y ago
    Yeah bollards right in the middle of the cycle path are unfortunately common around here.
  - mnutt 3y ago
    They’re also significantly narrower than they need to be to stop a car: https://gothamist.com/news/security-measures-on-hudson-river-greenway-serve-as-reminder-of-terror-attack https://gothamist.com/news/security-measures-on-hudson-river... Still, I guess they’re better than the concrete jersey barriers they installed initially, and still have in some places along that route.
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    Yeah, I guess that’s the non-thinking, car-driving traffic engineers solution to “if we put two bollards on the sides of the trail, there’s enough space for a car to go between them, so we’ll save some money while we make things SAFER.” The amount of stupid cycling infrastructure I see is pretty mind-blowing. It’s very obvious traffic engineers have zero interest in actually building multi-model infrastructure, instead just doing a box-checking exercise to get those federal road dollars.
    - adrianmonk 3y ago
      > the non-thinking, car-driving traffic engineers solution to “if we put two bollards on the sides of the trail, there’s enough space for a car to go between them, so we’ll save some money while we make things SAFER.” That doesn't make sense to me. The entire reason the bollard exists is to stop cars from turning into the bike path. It has nothing to do with non-thinking engineers. It has nothing to do with saving money. It's because if there's space for a car to fit between them, then the bollards will not fulfill their one and only purpose. EDIT: Note that I'm not saying that it's a good design. But I am saying it didn't come about for the reasons you're saying.
      - rahimnathwani 3y ago
        It sounds like GP is assuming that a car is wider than the bike lane, so putting bollards on each side of the bike lane would stop cars, without blocking bikes from using the centre of the lane?
loeg 3y ago
E.g., https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/king-county-to-pay-10m-to-cyclist-paralyzed-in-bollard-crash/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/kin... (not a death, but you can see the similarity).
otherme123 3y ago
I knew a guy that was driving a small motorbike, when a car forced him to the right. He fell on a bollard like the ones shaped as pencils in the article linked, broken badly his chest and dying soon after. According to witnesses, the hit was at slow speeds, so it could happen to a bike.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Yeah there's a few "light" bollards on bike paths around here, mainly to keep cars off of them, and while they're plenty visible and won't stop a car at speed, they are unforgiving if you were to clip them with your bike.

Kuinox 3y ago

In country with decent civil engineering, we have soft bollards. It will still make a bike fall, but falling on it isn't life threatening. You can also twist the bollard when you are bored. The downside is that it probably doesn't stop a car with enough speed. https://i.imgur.com/Pe8Ih4C.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Pe8Ih4C.jpeg