6 ms·

Any regime that seeks to suppress the media can't be up to any good, IMO.

yonixwm 2y ago
On the other extreme, Are media that spread misinformation without any due process are just protected indefinitely? Like in this very recent case: https://honestreporting.com/damage-done-how-al-jazeeras-fake-news-harmed-israels-reputation-in-less-than-24-hours/#:~:text=That%20was%20the%20case%20this,trying%20to%20silently%20bury%20it https://honestreporting.com/damage-done-how-al-jazeeras-fake... Edit: haaretz link: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-03-25/ty-article/.premium/al-jazeera-retracts-video-claiming-woman-was-raped-by-israeli-forces-in-gaza-al-shifa-raid/0000018e-7662-d3e0-a98e-7766b4a50000 https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-0...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- jjgreen 2y ago
  Honest Reporting is an Israeli media advocacy group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HonestReporting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HonestReporting
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - jamra 2y ago
    The tweet that is linked in the web page is from the former managing editor of Al Jazeera. You can just click on the tweet directly and use Google translate.
  - CommanderData 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - sniggers 2y ago
      Why would Israel have to do anything? With the flagging system, even if there's just a minority of pro-Israel users anything anti-Israel is now effectively banned.
- kelthuzad 2y ago
  "honestreporting.com" is ironically dishonestly reporting, it's a propaganda outlet with no credibility.
  - sam1r 2y ago
    Maybe the “actual” news should be rebranded to “fake news” in rebuttal.
- orwin 2y ago
  I've read the article. One counterpoint though: The reason stated on why Hamas affirmed the rape story was false wasn't 'because it backfired and made civilians flee'. This never happened,and the justifications is too convoluted. No, they took a page out of IRA and ETA's: total transparency. They want people to believe what they say, and for that, you can't be caught lying. I don't know if it's recent or not, but that's also the reason why the death toll reported by Hamas is lower than the one expected by the US and most military intelligence. If a news is from a Hamas official spokesman, it's likely true (might be misleading, but always factually true) Shame on Al-Jazeera to let liars on air, but to be fair, that 24h news for you.
  - yonixw 2y ago
    > If a news is from a Hamas official spokesman, it's likely true What? They lie constantly! They just got caught. Here is what happened when BBC just reported them without checking: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67140250 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67140250 And then when they apologized admitting they should have not speculate: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/israel-accuses-bbc-of-modern-blood-libel-over-reporting-of-hospital-strike https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/israel-accuses...
- vbezhenar 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - yonixw 2y ago
    > Words are not knifes. People eventually will adapt to lies and weird things. And truth will find a way. I really see it differently that both ends are equally bad. After all, on the same night that the BBC announced 500 dead after the "bombing" at a hospital in Gaza, which turned out to be a Hamas missile that fell and killed at most 50 there... crowds took to the streets and created a threat to Israeli embassies around the world.
    - bentley 2y ago
      Correction: a PIJ rocket, not a Hamas rocket.
      - jolj 2y ago
        And it is different how? the point being is that incident was falsely blamed on the IDF while it was a Palestinian rocket misfire
    - adhamsalama 2y ago
      Do you have a source that it was a Hamas missile, or do you simply spread Israeli lies?
      - yonixw 2y ago
        https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-up-claims-it-didnt-attack-gaza-hospital-a8cc3405 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-u...
      - jolj 2y ago
        AP: https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3 https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hos... CNN: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast?cid=ios_app https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigat... Economist: https://www.economist.com/interactive/the-economist-explains/2023/10/20/what-evidence-reveals-about-the-gaza-hospital-blasts-source https://www.economist.com/interactive/the-economist-explains... Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-hospital-piecing-together-what-happened-as-israel-insists-militant-rocket-to-blame https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-h... WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/video/video-analysis-shows-gaza-hospital-hit-by-failed-rocket-meant-for-israel/120A1C22-BA32-418E-8837-BC4141FEFB00 https://www.wsj.com/video/video-analysis-shows-gaza-hospital... Also worth reading this document straight from Hamas: https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1774437234579558643 https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1774437234579558643
- kromem 2y ago
  Are you saying that every news outlet that reports false claims by eyewitness accounts which turn out not to be true and aren't sufficiently loud about retractions should be banned by their host countries? Because I can think of quite a number of stories over the years, and even in terms of this current conflict in the Middle East, where there were falsehoods in the fog of war or even intentionally seeded that turned out not to be true and many of the news organizations airing them initially only took stories down and didn't run front page denouncements of their own reporting. I agree that retractions and in general journalistic integrity needs a bit more attention as a global society, but banning news organizations that print things you don't like is something I tend to associate with a very Stalinesque mindset and not a bastion of democracy and liberty. In general, individuals and groups are bettered by exposure to naysayers than surrounded by yes-men.
  - yonixw 2y ago
    > that print things you don't like But that the whole point. It's not just that Israel "don't like it". It's false claims. > aren't sufficiently loud about retractions And what if there are no retraction? only if the backlash is big enough? Like in the case where there were no hundreds of dead in a direct bombing but a 50 dead in a failed PIJ rocked on hospital: https://archive.is/r6noB https://archive.is/r6noB and the same version today: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-hamas-war-live-iran-warns-resistance-front-may-attack https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-ha...
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > in the case where there were no hundreds of dead in a direct bombing but a 50 dead in a failed PIJ rocked on hospital Almost every news agency got this wrong to some degree [1]. What matters is whether they corrected their story as new information arose. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/media/hospital-blast-gaza-reports.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/media/hospital-b...
- arp242 2y ago
  All newspapers get things wrong some of the time. With the best of intentions and best of skills, it ... just happens because the world is just too complex to always be 100% accurate. Of course they should strive to be accurate all of the time, but we also need to be realistic. This applies even more to warzones. What matters is how often this happens and what the response is when it happens. As far as I know, Al Jazeera is not significantly worse than anyone else here. There's a difference between "spreading misinformation" and "being wrong every once in a while". The problem with sites like "honest reporting" is that they take these incidents, completely ignore (or outright defend) all the types their side has been wrong on this type of stuff, and then construct a narrative that "proves" that "the other side" is merely a malicious cluster of evil that seeks to spread evil for evil's sake. This is exactly the type of dehumanizing hyper-partisanship that got us in this mess in the first place.
  - yonixw 2y ago
    > All newspapers get things wrong some of the time. And what if there are no retraction? only if the backlash is big enough? Like in the case where there were no hundreds of dead in a direct bombing but a 50 dead in a failed PIJ rocked on hospital: https://archive.is/r6noB https://archive.is/r6noB and the same version today: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-hamas-war-live-iran-warns-resistance-front-may-attack https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-ha...
    - arp242 2y ago
      I can go tit-for-tat with examples from Israeli newspapers or even Israeli government for the rest of the day, but like I said, what matters is the overall pattern and how this compares. And as far as I know, Al Jazeera is not significantly worse here. Also: why are you using two accounts? :-/
      - yonixw 2y ago
        > examples from Israeli newspapers ... Al Jazeera is not significantly worse here. Sure, I would like to see something similar from Haaretz/Ynetnews where they believed Israel without critical due process. And did not retract in a consistent matter. And the second account is my mobile (I like it separate)... that is why I gave them the same name.
flanked-evergl 2y ago
EU has a ban on RT on its books today, nearly every single democratic country is currently or has previously censored media. Without judging this specific action, saying that Israel is bad for doing something that every other country does or has done makes it seem like your problem is not really with what is being done, but your problem is with Israel. This may not be the case, you may not be aware that nearly every country engages in censorship of some form.
- megous 2y ago
  What you're missing is that Israel is banning foreign reporters from Gaza. That's why there are none there. It also number 1 reporter killing country in the world. Killed more than 100 in the last 365 days. Does EU kill reporters? So stop your false comparisons.
  - flanked-evergl 2y ago
    How many of those 100 journalists killed were intentionally killed because they were journalists, as opposed to dying as collateral damage? And if foreign journalists want to get into Palestine, they have other options than entering through the Israeli border, they can enter through the Egyptian border.
    - cthaeh 2y ago
      [dead]
    - megous 2y ago
      > And if foreign journalists want to get into Palestine, they have other options... First, they don't. All crossings are controlled by Israel. There's a reason why you have a lot of foreign reporting on the ground from Syria civil war and nothing from Gaza. (I noted your switch from Gaza to Palestine, btw) And journalistic agencies complain about this repeatedly. 10% of journalists killed (against 2% of total population killed) and ratios of killed/injured certainly suggest special targeting. So here, have a blast and count for yourself based on your definition of collateral damage: https://cpj.org/2024/05/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/ https://cpj.org/2024/05/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-... there's a story/sources there for every single killing that is known/documented. To me, it looks like majority were killed intentionally based on that list. Things like sniper and other direct fire killings, being killed in their homes along with their families when doing nothing but dinning or sleeping, or at assignments, or in front of hospitals near journalist tents, or being denied medevac after critical injuries, is not how I'd define collateral damage.
gandhirs 2y ago
Tell me where is the jew news office in Palestine.

On the other extreme, Are media that spread misinformation without any due process are just protected indefinitely? Like in this very recent case: https://honestreporting.com/damage-done-how-al-jazeeras-fake-news-harmed-israels-reputation-in-less-than-24-hours/#:~:text=That%20was%20the%20case%20this,trying%20to%20silently%20bury%20it https://honestreporting.com/damage-done-how-al-jazeeras-fake... Edit: haaretz link: https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-03-25/ty-article/.premium/al-jazeera-retracts-video-claiming-woman-was-raped-by-israeli-forces-in-gaza-al-shifa-raid/0000018e-7662-d3e0-a98e-7766b4a50000 https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-0...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jjgreen 2y ago
Honest Reporting is an Israeli media advocacy group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HonestReporting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HonestReporting
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- jamra 2y ago
  The tweet that is linked in the web page is from the former managing editor of Al Jazeera. You can just click on the tweet directly and use Google translate.
- CommanderData 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - sniggers 2y ago
    Why would Israel have to do anything? With the flagging system, even if there's just a minority of pro-Israel users anything anti-Israel is now effectively banned.
kelthuzad 2y ago
"honestreporting.com" is ironically dishonestly reporting, it's a propaganda outlet with no credibility.
- sam1r 2y ago
  Maybe the “actual” news should be rebranded to “fake news” in rebuttal.
orwin 2y ago
I've read the article. One counterpoint though: The reason stated on why Hamas affirmed the rape story was false wasn't 'because it backfired and made civilians flee'. This never happened,and the justifications is too convoluted. No, they took a page out of IRA and ETA's: total transparency. They want people to believe what they say, and for that, you can't be caught lying. I don't know if it's recent or not, but that's also the reason why the death toll reported by Hamas is lower than the one expected by the US and most military intelligence. If a news is from a Hamas official spokesman, it's likely true (might be misleading, but always factually true) Shame on Al-Jazeera to let liars on air, but to be fair, that 24h news for you.
- yonixw 2y ago
  > If a news is from a Hamas official spokesman, it's likely true What? They lie constantly! They just got caught. Here is what happened when BBC just reported them without checking: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67140250 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67140250 And then when they apologized admitting they should have not speculate: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/israel-accuses-bbc-of-modern-blood-libel-over-reporting-of-hospital-strike https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/israel-accuses...
vbezhenar 2y ago
[flagged]
- yonixw 2y ago
  > Words are not knifes. People eventually will adapt to lies and weird things. And truth will find a way. I really see it differently that both ends are equally bad. After all, on the same night that the BBC announced 500 dead after the "bombing" at a hospital in Gaza, which turned out to be a Hamas missile that fell and killed at most 50 there... crowds took to the streets and created a threat to Israeli embassies around the world.
  - bentley 2y ago
    Correction: a PIJ rocket, not a Hamas rocket.
    - jolj 2y ago
      And it is different how? the point being is that incident was falsely blamed on the IDF while it was a Palestinian rocket misfire
  - adhamsalama 2y ago
    Do you have a source that it was a Hamas missile, or do you simply spread Israeli lies?
    - yonixw 2y ago
      https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-up-claims-it-didnt-attack-gaza-hospital-a8cc3405 https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-tries-to-back-u...
    - jolj 2y ago
      AP: https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3 https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hos... CNN: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast?cid=ios_app https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigat... Economist: https://www.economist.com/interactive/the-economist-explains/2023/10/20/what-evidence-reveals-about-the-gaza-hospital-blasts-source https://www.economist.com/interactive/the-economist-explains... Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-hospital-piecing-together-what-happened-as-israel-insists-militant-rocket-to-blame https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-h... WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/video/video-analysis-shows-gaza-hospital-hit-by-failed-rocket-meant-for-israel/120A1C22-BA32-418E-8837-BC4141FEFB00 https://www.wsj.com/video/video-analysis-shows-gaza-hospital... Also worth reading this document straight from Hamas: https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1774437234579558643 https://twitter.com/cogatonline/status/1774437234579558643
kromem 2y ago
Are you saying that every news outlet that reports false claims by eyewitness accounts which turn out not to be true and aren't sufficiently loud about retractions should be banned by their host countries? Because I can think of quite a number of stories over the years, and even in terms of this current conflict in the Middle East, where there were falsehoods in the fog of war or even intentionally seeded that turned out not to be true and many of the news organizations airing them initially only took stories down and didn't run front page denouncements of their own reporting. I agree that retractions and in general journalistic integrity needs a bit more attention as a global society, but banning news organizations that print things you don't like is something I tend to associate with a very Stalinesque mindset and not a bastion of democracy and liberty. In general, individuals and groups are bettered by exposure to naysayers than surrounded by yes-men.
- yonixw 2y ago
  > that print things you don't like But that the whole point. It's not just that Israel "don't like it". It's false claims. > aren't sufficiently loud about retractions And what if there are no retraction? only if the backlash is big enough? Like in the case where there were no hundreds of dead in a direct bombing but a 50 dead in a failed PIJ rocked on hospital: https://archive.is/r6noB https://archive.is/r6noB and the same version today: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-hamas-war-live-iran-warns-resistance-front-may-attack https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-ha...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > in the case where there were no hundreds of dead in a direct bombing but a 50 dead in a failed PIJ rocked on hospital Almost every news agency got this wrong to some degree [1]. What matters is whether they corrected their story as new information arose. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/media/hospital-blast-gaza-reports.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/media/hospital-b...
arp242 2y ago
All newspapers get things wrong some of the time. With the best of intentions and best of skills, it ... just happens because the world is just too complex to always be 100% accurate. Of course they should strive to be accurate all of the time, but we also need to be realistic. This applies even more to warzones. What matters is how often this happens and what the response is when it happens. As far as I know, Al Jazeera is not significantly worse than anyone else here. There's a difference between "spreading misinformation" and "being wrong every once in a while". The problem with sites like "honest reporting" is that they take these incidents, completely ignore (or outright defend) all the types their side has been wrong on this type of stuff, and then construct a narrative that "proves" that "the other side" is merely a malicious cluster of evil that seeks to spread evil for evil's sake. This is exactly the type of dehumanizing hyper-partisanship that got us in this mess in the first place.
- yonixw 2y ago
  > All newspapers get things wrong some of the time. And what if there are no retraction? only if the backlash is big enough? Like in the case where there were no hundreds of dead in a direct bombing but a 50 dead in a failed PIJ rocked on hospital: https://archive.is/r6noB https://archive.is/r6noB and the same version today: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-hamas-war-live-iran-warns-resistance-front-may-attack https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/16/israel-ha...
  - arp242 2y ago
    I can go tit-for-tat with examples from Israeli newspapers or even Israeli government for the rest of the day, but like I said, what matters is the overall pattern and how this compares. And as far as I know, Al Jazeera is not significantly worse here. Also: why are you using two accounts? :-/
    - yonixw 2y ago
      > examples from Israeli newspapers ... Al Jazeera is not significantly worse here. Sure, I would like to see something similar from Haaretz/Ynetnews where they believed Israel without critical due process. And did not retract in a consistent matter. And the second account is my mobile (I like it separate)... that is why I gave them the same name.

flanked-evergl 2y ago

EU has a ban on RT on its books today, nearly every single democratic country is currently or has previously censored media. Without judging this specific action, saying that Israel is bad for doing something that every other country does or has done makes it seem like your problem is not really with what is being done, but your problem is with Israel. This may not be the case, you may not be aware that nearly every country engages in censorship of some form.

megous 2y ago
What you're missing is that Israel is banning foreign reporters from Gaza. That's why there are none there. It also number 1 reporter killing country in the world. Killed more than 100 in the last 365 days. Does EU kill reporters? So stop your false comparisons.
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
  How many of those 100 journalists killed were intentionally killed because they were journalists, as opposed to dying as collateral damage? And if foreign journalists want to get into Palestine, they have other options than entering through the Israeli border, they can enter through the Egyptian border.
  - cthaeh 2y ago
    [dead]
  - megous 2y ago
    > And if foreign journalists want to get into Palestine, they have other options... First, they don't. All crossings are controlled by Israel. There's a reason why you have a lot of foreign reporting on the ground from Syria civil war and nothing from Gaza. (I noted your switch from Gaza to Palestine, btw) And journalistic agencies complain about this repeatedly. 10% of journalists killed (against 2% of total population killed) and ratios of killed/injured certainly suggest special targeting. So here, have a blast and count for yourself based on your definition of collateral damage: https://cpj.org/2024/05/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/ https://cpj.org/2024/05/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-... there's a story/sources there for every single killing that is known/documented. To me, it looks like majority were killed intentionally based on that list. Things like sniper and other direct fire killings, being killed in their homes along with their families when doing nothing but dinning or sleeping, or at assignments, or in front of hospitals near journalist tents, or being denied medevac after critical injuries, is not how I'd define collateral damage.

gandhirs 2y ago

Tell me where is the jew news office in Palestine.