7 ms·

First 'tooth regrowth medicine' to be tested in Japan from Sept. 2024

237 points by elorant 2y ago

darkerside 2y ago
This is for growing in teeth that never properly grew in the first place for genetic reasons. It's not a cure for your cavities. Don't get your hopes up!
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  "The team believes that in the future it may be possible to grow teeth not only in people with congenital conditions, but also in those who have lost teeth due to cavities or injuries."
- jupp0r 2y ago
  The article states "The team believes that in the future it may be possible to grow teeth not only in people with congenital conditions, but also in those who have lost teeth due to cavities or injuries."
  - al_borland 2y ago
    I first read about scientists making progress on regrowing teeth about 20 years ago. At the time, I thought this would be a future I saw and crowns would not be something I’d have to deal with. 20 years later, I no longer expect this to be something I experience in my lifetime.
    - darkerside 2y ago
      The parallels to cold fusion are hilarious! Maybe just to me
  - croes 2y ago
    Believes... it may be possible That isn't really strong confidence.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ThinkBeat 2y ago
  surely if you can regrow an entire tooth that never existed. You can make teeth heal? Or rip it out and grow a new one?
  - XorNot 2y ago
    It needs the tooth nucleation point to exist at the moment: it's where the truth starts growing from during development.
    - jwells89 2y ago
      As a layman it seems like the natural follow-up is to figure out how to grow tooth buds from stem cells and implant them, which in theory would allow people to grow whole new sets of teeth.
- animex 2y ago
  Oh Wow, I actually still have a baby tooth @ 50+ years old because an adult tooth never grew behind it. My dentist has been warning me that eventually I'll need to bridge/implant it but I wonder if I would be a candidate for this treatment. Depending on the cost too.
  - jwells89 2y ago
    I’m curious about this too, also having an adult tooth that never developed.
    - Ueland 2y ago
      Strangely enough, still possible. My dad was in this sixties when he got his wisdom teeth.
  - smeej 2y ago
    My brother is in a similar situation, though younger, and it's especially weird in our family because my dad grew a full extra tooth near the front for no apparent reason, and his brother regrew all four wisdom teeth after having them extracted, so you'd think my brother would err on the side of too many teeth, not too few! (We're a bit screwy in general, though. My dad has an extra vertebra, besides the extra tooth, and I managed not to get enough vertebrae, but I have 1.5 extra ribs.)
    - adaml_623 2y ago
      And that's just the oddities you've noticed
      - smeej 2y ago
        Yeah, but I will say we tend to pay more attention now. We warn radiography folks that all may not be as expected, so they join us in playing, "What's weird about this skeleton?"
paulgerhardt 2y ago
I once read an off hand comment[1] from a dental scientist on Reddit that NovaMin® (calcium sodium phosphosilicate) was shown with strong evidence to reverse tooth decay and promote remineralization but due to complex licensing issues was made OTC in Sensodyne toothpaste everywhere but the USA. I think the effect is subtle but present and slightly more effective than just fluoride by itself. I travel often enough that I find myself looking for and buying Sensodyne with novamin but without whitening agents when I’m abroad but I understand others source it in the US online. Do check the ingredients - it’s in about 1/3rd of the Sensodyne packages I pick up off the shelf outside the US but certainly not all. I follow the topic very casually - I understand hydroxyapatite, fluorapatite, and biotin were initially reported to be even better (but only through self-reported studies such as Biomin.) I couldn’t tell you why or if there is now more credibility there nor where to source it if it is. BioMin USA’s anti-fluoride stance raises a lot of red flags for me and is probably what turned me off their brand when I looked into it years ago. GSK Sensodyne sells formulations with fluoride and novamin - I wouldn’t use toothpaste without fluoride. (Edit: I see BioMin UK sells toothpaste with fluoride.) [1] https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-with-this-cult-toothpaste-963dda060501 https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-wi... - Medium Paywall link but gets the general point across
- 2Gkashmiri 2y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/ says it doesnt but also says better trials should be done in future
- analyte123 2y ago
  You can buy several varieties of hydroxyapatite toothpaste on Amazon now. Before 2021 or so it was a bit of a pain - a couple Japanese and Singaporean brands with spotty availability. Edit: as alluded to by sibling comment, there are confusing claims about the exact size and structure of the hydroxyapatite ingredient used. Several brands claim that their particles (?) are smaller than those used by Novamin or by other brands and therefore more effective. The concept of remineralizing the surface of existing teeth is totally different than what this article is talking about, though.
M_bara 2y ago
This is something life changing for some of us. I grew up in an area where water has a lot of fluoride and we didn’t get to know until I was 16.. side effect is I have very brittle teeth.. I’ve shattered a couple due to bad rice (had a small stone in it), lentils, sliver of bone … Now, the kicker is Colgate et al have been marketing fluoride toothpaste to the same region to people facing fluorosis knowingly - profits above all else. so if this treatment comes through, I’ll be lining up!
- lgleason 2y ago
  I thought the fluoride was supposed to be good for teeth, I guess too much has the opposite effect. TIL
  - coffeebeqn 2y ago
    You’re not supposed to swallow it. It builds up in the body (in teeth mainly?)
    - mrits 2y ago
      My mom was obsessed with flouride in water so I actually asked my dentist about it. According to an actual health professional it is quite good for the teeth and excessive amounts only affect the appearance not structure.
      - Sharlin 2y ago
        Fluoride catalyzes remineralization of dissolved calcium and phosphate atoms back to hydroxyapatite; this also happens without fluoride, but less efficiently. In addition fluorine ions can substitute the hydroxide ions in hydroxyapatite, forming fluorapatite which is more resistant against acid.
      - guerrilla 2y ago
        That actual health professional was wrong. It depends on the exposure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_fluorosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_fluorosis
marcelsalathe 2y ago
I'm a bit puzzled why one would hold a press conference for a trial that hasn't happened yet - especially as this seems to be a phase 1 trial to test safety in humans. The development of medical interventions typically goes through a number of stages. The earliest stage is called the pre-clinical phase, where a candidate intervention is tested outside of humans, either in vitro or in animals. The images of the mouse and ferret teeth suggest this has been done. Phase 1 is when the intervention is first tested in humans, typically in small groups of usually dozens of participants. The aim here is not to evaluate efficacy - phase 1 studies are often too small for that - but to assess tolerability and safety, and to find the optimal dosing with respect to side effects. If an intervention appears safe in certain doses, it can then be evaluated for initial efficacy and continued safety in a phase 2 trial, which is larger (usually hundreds of participants). Think of it as a kind of pilot trial to see if the intervention has the desired beneficial effects without serious negative side effects, and to identify the dose with the best benefit/risk ratio. About half of the studies get past this stage. Those that do can enter phase 3, which is the full efficacy and safety assessment of the intervention. Again, about half of the phase 3 trials eventually make it to market. Of course, the intervention first needs to go to the health authorities for regulatory approval before it can be offered on the market. For an interesting study on costs during these phases, see e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32125404/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32125404/ I'm obviously very excited about medical progress but if we had a press conference for every planned phase 1 trial we wouldn't be doing much else ;-)
- mathgeek 2y ago
  I assumed it’s to drive up interest among potential investors.
- reustle 2y ago
  > I'm a bit puzzled why one would hold a press conference for a trial that hasn't happened yet This is something Japan loves to do. We joked during covid that they kept making announcements that they were planning to have a meetings to prepare announcements.
  - 2y ago
joemaller1 2y ago
They've already got natto
Theodores 2y ago
There is a lot of money in the tooth illness industry. However, none of my dentists ever told me to just quit all added sugar, which I did 'accidentally'. All of that expense and missing teeth was all for nothing, all I needed to do was homecook all my own food and not eat added sugar. Who knew it could be so easy. Having excellent oral hygiene with gums grown back, no sensitive teeth or much need to brush teeth is an unusual and unexpected self-esteem superpower. I would not give it up just to eat cake or anything else contaminated with added sugar. Off topic, I know, but, anyone wanting tooth regrowth, or with $5K root canal work and dental hygienist bills, just avoid all processed foods and all added sugar for a month. You don't have to ask permission from the doctor or the dentist to do this, but, if you do, then you might never need to see them ever again.
- Sharlin 2y ago
  (Edit: removed unnecessary sarcasm) I'm rather baffled that it's possible to not know that sugar is bad for your teeth, as it's pretty much the most often repeated fact about teeth ever. Technically sugar itself doesn't do anything to teeth. But sugar is food for bacteria. Sugar in mouth = mouth bacteria happily multiply and literally form a biofilm covering your teeth (plaque). Some of them excrete acidic metabolic products. Acid dissolves enamel (hydroxyapatite). The bacteria infestation also irritates gums and causes gingvitis and so on. Less food for bacteria = fewer bacteria = healthier teeth.
  - dang 2y ago
    Please make your substantive points without crossing into personal attack. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- chaorace 2y ago
  I'm with you when it comes to advocating against added sugars and spreading the word about how surprisingly resilient teeth are when given a good environment... but I do think you've hurt your own argument by overstating the case. First: Calculus forms within hours of eating just about any meal. Sugars make this much worse, but to a certain extent it is unavoidable. Regular appointments with a hygienist will improve your long-term dental health regardless of diet, though the necessary frequency can be decreased in many cases with a good diet. Second: Please don't stop brushing your teeth, especially if you want fewer dentist appointments. It's one of the cheapest and safest investments you can possibly make in your body. Just because you can't feel the plaque doesn't mean that it's not there. Third: Added sugars are just really, terribly bad for you in general. I'm speaking now to those that don't care much about their teeth: you can do so much for your long-term health by simply checking for this one thing on labels. I know it's an odd concept to think of added sugars as being so much worse than "natural" sugars when they're fundamentally the same molecules, but it's true -- the differences in solubility/bioavailability have a very outsized impact.
gromneer 2y ago
I wish our civilization made these future med tech advancements every day. Sadly only rats benefit from our greatest medical achievements from cancer cures to limb regeneration.
poopsmithe 2y ago
Yeah I need that. I floss 1-3 times a day, use a water pick and brush 2-3 times a day but it doesn't really matter. My body attacks itself and I've ended up with bone loss in my teeth. I'm in my 30s and I have to do periodontal care every 3 months. I foresee losing my teeth before I'm 50 unless I can get my hands on something like this.
gwbas1c 2y ago
I have a lot of congenitally missing teeth. Dental implants were very, very expensive; and I had to go through orthodontia twice. I hope this treatment is significantly cheaper.
Madmallard 2y ago
Hope something develops in this front. I grew up drinking soda with bad teeth genetically. I also had a period when I was seriously ill where I was barely brushing. The teeth are swiss cheese and I wish there was something I could do other than rip them all out and look 20 years older. I'm only in my early 30s so it's really distressing. :(

237 points by elorant 2y ago

This is for growing in teeth that never properly grew in the first place for genetic reasons. It's not a cure for your cavities. Don't get your hopes up!

Brian_K_White 2y ago
"The team believes that in the future it may be possible to grow teeth not only in people with congenital conditions, but also in those who have lost teeth due to cavities or injuries."
jupp0r 2y ago
The article states "The team believes that in the future it may be possible to grow teeth not only in people with congenital conditions, but also in those who have lost teeth due to cavities or injuries."
- al_borland 2y ago
  I first read about scientists making progress on regrowing teeth about 20 years ago. At the time, I thought this would be a future I saw and crowns would not be something I’d have to deal with. 20 years later, I no longer expect this to be something I experience in my lifetime.
  - darkerside 2y ago
    The parallels to cold fusion are hilarious! Maybe just to me
- croes 2y ago
  Believes... it may be possible That isn't really strong confidence.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ThinkBeat 2y ago
surely if you can regrow an entire tooth that never existed. You can make teeth heal? Or rip it out and grow a new one?
- XorNot 2y ago
  It needs the tooth nucleation point to exist at the moment: it's where the truth starts growing from during development.
  - jwells89 2y ago
    As a layman it seems like the natural follow-up is to figure out how to grow tooth buds from stem cells and implant them, which in theory would allow people to grow whole new sets of teeth.
animex 2y ago
Oh Wow, I actually still have a baby tooth @ 50+ years old because an adult tooth never grew behind it. My dentist has been warning me that eventually I'll need to bridge/implant it but I wonder if I would be a candidate for this treatment. Depending on the cost too.
- jwells89 2y ago
  I’m curious about this too, also having an adult tooth that never developed.
  - Ueland 2y ago
    Strangely enough, still possible. My dad was in this sixties when he got his wisdom teeth.
- smeej 2y ago
  My brother is in a similar situation, though younger, and it's especially weird in our family because my dad grew a full extra tooth near the front for no apparent reason, and his brother regrew all four wisdom teeth after having them extracted, so you'd think my brother would err on the side of too many teeth, not too few! (We're a bit screwy in general, though. My dad has an extra vertebra, besides the extra tooth, and I managed not to get enough vertebrae, but I have 1.5 extra ribs.)
  - adaml_623 2y ago
    And that's just the oddities you've noticed
    - smeej 2y ago
      Yeah, but I will say we tend to pay more attention now. We warn radiography folks that all may not be as expected, so they join us in playing, "What's weird about this skeleton?"

paulgerhardt 2y ago

I once read an off hand comment[1] from a dental scientist on Reddit that NovaMin® (calcium sodium phosphosilicate) was shown with strong evidence to reverse tooth decay and promote remineralization but due to complex licensing issues was made OTC in Sensodyne toothpaste everywhere but the USA. I think the effect is subtle but present and slightly more effective than just fluoride by itself. I travel often enough that I find myself looking for and buying Sensodyne with novamin but without whitening agents when I’m abroad but I understand others source it in the US online. Do check the ingredients - it’s in about 1/3rd of the Sensodyne packages I pick up off the shelf outside the US but certainly not all. I follow the topic very casually - I understand hydroxyapatite, fluorapatite, and biotin were initially reported to be even better (but only through self-reported studies such as Biomin.) I couldn’t tell you why or if there is now more credibility there nor where to source it if it is. BioMin USA’s anti-fluoride stance raises a lot of red flags for me and is probably what turned me off their brand when I looked into it years ago. GSK Sensodyne sells formulations with fluoride and novamin - I wouldn’t use toothpaste without fluoride. (Edit: I see BioMin UK sells toothpaste with fluoride.) [1] https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-with-this-cult-toothpaste-963dda060501 https://elemental.medium.com/why-is-the-internet-obsessed-wi... - Medium Paywall link but gets the general point across

2Gkashmiri 2y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/ says it doesnt but also says better trials should be done in future
analyte123 2y ago
You can buy several varieties of hydroxyapatite toothpaste on Amazon now. Before 2021 or so it was a bit of a pain - a couple Japanese and Singaporean brands with spotty availability. Edit: as alluded to by sibling comment, there are confusing claims about the exact size and structure of the hydroxyapatite ingredient used. Several brands claim that their particles (?) are smaller than those used by Novamin or by other brands and therefore more effective. The concept of remineralizing the surface of existing teeth is totally different than what this article is talking about, though.

M_bara 2y ago

This is something life changing for some of us. I grew up in an area where water has a lot of fluoride and we didn’t get to know until I was 16.. side effect is I have very brittle teeth.. I’ve shattered a couple due to bad rice (had a small stone in it), lentils, sliver of bone … Now, the kicker is Colgate et al have been marketing fluoride toothpaste to the same region to people facing fluorosis knowingly - profits above all else. so if this treatment comes through, I’ll be lining up!

lgleason 2y ago
I thought the fluoride was supposed to be good for teeth, I guess too much has the opposite effect. TIL
- coffeebeqn 2y ago
  You’re not supposed to swallow it. It builds up in the body (in teeth mainly?)
  - mrits 2y ago
    My mom was obsessed with flouride in water so I actually asked my dentist about it. According to an actual health professional it is quite good for the teeth and excessive amounts only affect the appearance not structure.
    - Sharlin 2y ago
      Fluoride catalyzes remineralization of dissolved calcium and phosphate atoms back to hydroxyapatite; this also happens without fluoride, but less efficiently. In addition fluorine ions can substitute the hydroxide ions in hydroxyapatite, forming fluorapatite which is more resistant against acid.
    - guerrilla 2y ago
      That actual health professional was wrong. It depends on the exposure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_fluorosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_fluorosis

marcelsalathe 2y ago

I'm a bit puzzled why one would hold a press conference for a trial that hasn't happened yet - especially as this seems to be a phase 1 trial to test safety in humans. The development of medical interventions typically goes through a number of stages. The earliest stage is called the pre-clinical phase, where a candidate intervention is tested outside of humans, either in vitro or in animals. The images of the mouse and ferret teeth suggest this has been done. Phase 1 is when the intervention is first tested in humans, typically in small groups of usually dozens of participants. The aim here is not to evaluate efficacy - phase 1 studies are often too small for that - but to assess tolerability and safety, and to find the optimal dosing with respect to side effects. If an intervention appears safe in certain doses, it can then be evaluated for initial efficacy and continued safety in a phase 2 trial, which is larger (usually hundreds of participants). Think of it as a kind of pilot trial to see if the intervention has the desired beneficial effects without serious negative side effects, and to identify the dose with the best benefit/risk ratio. About half of the studies get past this stage. Those that do can enter phase 3, which is the full efficacy and safety assessment of the intervention. Again, about half of the phase 3 trials eventually make it to market. Of course, the intervention first needs to go to the health authorities for regulatory approval before it can be offered on the market. For an interesting study on costs during these phases, see e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32125404/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32125404/ I'm obviously very excited about medical progress but if we had a press conference for every planned phase 1 trial we wouldn't be doing much else ;-)

mathgeek 2y ago
I assumed it’s to drive up interest among potential investors.
reustle 2y ago
> I'm a bit puzzled why one would hold a press conference for a trial that hasn't happened yet This is something Japan loves to do. We joked during covid that they kept making announcements that they were planning to have a meetings to prepare announcements.
- 2y ago

joemaller1 2y ago

They've already got natto

Theodores 2y ago

There is a lot of money in the tooth illness industry. However, none of my dentists ever told me to just quit all added sugar, which I did 'accidentally'. All of that expense and missing teeth was all for nothing, all I needed to do was homecook all my own food and not eat added sugar. Who knew it could be so easy. Having excellent oral hygiene with gums grown back, no sensitive teeth or much need to brush teeth is an unusual and unexpected self-esteem superpower. I would not give it up just to eat cake or anything else contaminated with added sugar. Off topic, I know, but, anyone wanting tooth regrowth, or with $5K root canal work and dental hygienist bills, just avoid all processed foods and all added sugar for a month. You don't have to ask permission from the doctor or the dentist to do this, but, if you do, then you might never need to see them ever again.

Sharlin 2y ago
(Edit: removed unnecessary sarcasm) I'm rather baffled that it's possible to not know that sugar is bad for your teeth, as it's pretty much the most often repeated fact about teeth ever. Technically sugar itself doesn't do anything to teeth. But sugar is food for bacteria. Sugar in mouth = mouth bacteria happily multiply and literally form a biofilm covering your teeth (plaque). Some of them excrete acidic metabolic products. Acid dissolves enamel (hydroxyapatite). The bacteria infestation also irritates gums and causes gingvitis and so on. Less food for bacteria = fewer bacteria = healthier teeth.
- dang 2y ago
  Please make your substantive points without crossing into personal attack. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
chaorace 2y ago
I'm with you when it comes to advocating against added sugars and spreading the word about how surprisingly resilient teeth are when given a good environment... but I do think you've hurt your own argument by overstating the case. First: Calculus forms within hours of eating just about any meal. Sugars make this much worse, but to a certain extent it is unavoidable. Regular appointments with a hygienist will improve your long-term dental health regardless of diet, though the necessary frequency can be decreased in many cases with a good diet. Second: Please don't stop brushing your teeth, especially if you want fewer dentist appointments. It's one of the cheapest and safest investments you can possibly make in your body. Just because you can't feel the plaque doesn't mean that it's not there. Third: Added sugars are just really, terribly bad for you in general. I'm speaking now to those that don't care much about their teeth: you can do so much for your long-term health by simply checking for this one thing on labels. I know it's an odd concept to think of added sugars as being so much worse than "natural" sugars when they're fundamentally the same molecules, but it's true -- the differences in solubility/bioavailability have a very outsized impact.

gromneer 2y ago

I wish our civilization made these future med tech advancements every day. Sadly only rats benefit from our greatest medical achievements from cancer cures to limb regeneration.

poopsmithe 2y ago

Yeah I need that. I floss 1-3 times a day, use a water pick and brush 2-3 times a day but it doesn't really matter. My body attacks itself and I've ended up with bone loss in my teeth. I'm in my 30s and I have to do periodontal care every 3 months. I foresee losing my teeth before I'm 50 unless I can get my hands on something like this.

gwbas1c 2y ago

I have a lot of congenitally missing teeth. Dental implants were very, very expensive; and I had to go through orthodontia twice. I hope this treatment is significantly cheaper.

Madmallard 2y ago

Hope something develops in this front. I grew up drinking soda with bad teeth genetically. I also had a period when I was seriously ill where I was barely brushing. The teeth are swiss cheese and I wish there was something I could do other than rip them all out and look 20 years older. I'm only in my early 30s so it's really distressing. :(