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Change my view: USA is going to strengthen ties with AUKUS instead of European NATO allies (except select counties like Poland) regardless the administration.
by f6v 2y ago
Change my view: USA is going to strengthen ties with AUKUS instead of European NATO allies (except select counties like Poland) regardless the administration.
- threeseed 2y agoThis has been the case for decades i.e Five Eyes alliance. So not sure why you think your statement is somehow provocative.
- resource_waste 2y agoPlease, NATO is the only one that actually matters.
- andyferris 2y agoI think a big part of the "value" Australia provides is a physical presence close to the Pacific and East Asia, where NATO isn't really a factor. Obviously NATO is larger militarily but the US will want to protect both flanks (or project power across both the Atlantic and the Pacific).
- Dalewyn 2y ago"Giant, Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier" is definitely a practical benefit that Australia (and also Japan) has that the US really appreciates having.
- PaulRobinson 2y agoThat seems to be the path being travelled on at the moment, and Germany and Poland seem to be planning for that outcome, but there will be serious lobbying - including from the U.K. - because it could be seen by Putin and the wider Kremlin system that keeps him in power as a gentle waving through of Russian tanks into Swedish, Finnish and former Soviet territory.
- matheusmoreira 2y agoThat's not even a controversial opinion though. US has pretty much always favored its anglosphere allies. It's more or less the new form of the british empire. See Five Eyes, Special Relationship.
- resource_waste 2y agoSimilar culture. As bad a Britain was during colonization, they seemed to be the morally highest out of the colonizers. Or at least France and the mainland European powers really really have a bad colonial reputation.
- adrian_b 2y agoI doubt that it can be said about Britain to have been "the morally highest out of the colonizers". The most obvious difference between Britain and the other colonizers is that in most British colonies the former native populations have vanished in a much greater proportion than in the colonies of other countries (with the notable exception of India, which was much more populous since the beginning and where much less British have immigrated). Based on this difference, Britain does not seem to have been the morally highest, but the opposite. The current higher solidarity between some former British colonies is based exactly on the fact that these are the colonies where the natives have been almost completely replaced by immigrants, which are more closely related between themselves due to their common origin.
- brg 2y agoBritain led the way to abolishment of slavery.
- aegypti 2y agoThere isn’t a single European colonizer who didn’t replace native populations in their settler colonies, “other colonizers” do not exist. That the Spanish Empire established large extractive colonies in 2 densely populated Indias (Aztec, Inca empires) [0] does not erase the complete and near total genocide the Spanish perpetrated in the less populated Caribbean, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina etc to replace the natives with their settlers. The intractable population density of large extractive colonies does not excuse Empire, and does not provide moral superiority. [0] - https://i.stack.imgur.com/9TdJI.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/9TdJI.png
- spacebanana7 2y agoI agree. There seems to be a lot of frustration, even in the pro NATO American institutions, at the lack of output from Canada & European allies. South Korea alone seems to have more military industrial ambition than either France or Germany.
- orwin 2y agoThe issue with France is that it compete with Us military industry not that it does not produce enough.
- resource_waste 2y agoI think the real issue with France is that they continue to pretend to be a super-power but they don't have the ability. So we hear their grand claims, and they never enforce it. This creates frustration in Europe because the leader of the European identity has a reputation of being a C student. (And no one seems to be ready to let Germany lead)
- spacemanspiff01 2y ago>And no one seems to be ready to let Germany lead Including the Germans.
- piloto_ciego 2y agoI mean, whats that bit from Norm McDonnell about how he’s still worried about the Germans, “it was basically them versus the world and it was kind of close!”
- htrp 2y agohttps://youtu.be/uXdtafGdIVM?si=Q0Di2LHqiuHzqyRR https://youtu.be/uXdtafGdIVM?si=Q0Di2LHqiuHzqyRR The stand-up comedy in question
- shiroiushi 2y ago
- gabesullice 2y agoDoes the USA necessarily need to weaken NATO ties at the expense of AUKUS ties?
- yau8edq12i 2y agoThe Australian submarine deal suggests so, yes.
- aldonius 2y agoAs an Australian - fuck me sideways, that was a shitshow on every possible level (and it's barely begun)
- rswail 2y agoThe US is going to be providing a sealed nuclear reactor to the UK/AU submarine development. It already shares that nuclear technology with the UK and CA, this is an extension to AU.
- yau8edq12i 2y agoOkay? Not really what we're talking about though. https://www.npr.org/2021/09/19/1038746061/submarine-deal-us-uk-australia-france https://www.npr.org/2021/09/19/1038746061/submarine-deal-us-... Of course, Australia found out they got the raw end of the deal a couple of years later: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/15/australia-may-only-build-three-of-eight-aukus-nuclear-powered-submarines-locally https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/15/australia-may-...
- Dalewyn 2y agoI'm not going to change your view, rather I'm going to ask you only realized that now? I'm not even being snarky. Despite fighting a war for independence, the USA has always loved mom (the UK) and likes its siblings (Canada, Australia, and New Zealand). Five Eyes is probably the most obvious example of our familial cooperation. The USA will always prioritize AUKUS and Five Eyes before NATO.
- fmajid 2y agoDon’t forget the 1812 War and British support for the Confederacy (granted, they apologized for the latter and paid reparations, something unheard of from the British). That said, the UK are docile vassals, not allies, which is why they get preferential access.
- bushbaba 2y agoChina is a bigger threat than Russia. Ukraine war has shown russias ability to force project is limited at best.