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The Airbus A340 was built to rule long-haul travel, but now it’s vanishing
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rado 2y agoLufthansa recently unretired its A340-600 fleet and I loved my long haul flight on one of them a couple of months ago. So smooth. Catch them while still around.
- switch007 2y agoI flew a Lufthansa A340 to Cape Town. Very nice plane. They have quite a quirky feature: there are toilets in the cargo hold, with steps leading down to them [0]. I liked it - the area is good for stretching your legs and it was a bit of a social hub. [0] https://onemileatatime.com/insights/lufthansa-a340-cargo-hold-bathrooms/ https://onemileatatime.com/insights/lufthansa-a340-cargo-hol...
- petesergeant 2y ago> So smooth I had neither noticed that the many times I flew one, nor known that was meant to be a characteristic of them, but ChatGPT agrees with you here. I think I’d still rather take the better pressurised cabin of the newer models tho
- Someone1234 2y agoFour-engine aircraft are wildly fuel inefficient, this is going away like the aircraft it was designed to compete against: The 747. Customers want smaller aircraft point-to-point travel, not larger spoke–hub travel, and airlines want cheap fuel costs. Plus regulatory agencies have decided two-engine aircraft can make long over-ocean trips (ETOPS) if they show the FAA a good quality spreadsheet and perform a few trivial tests.
- Beijinger 2y ago"Customers want smaller aircraft point-to-point travel, not larger spoke–hub travel, and airlines want cheap fuel costs." Who are the customers? Customers want cheap flights. Many people in the world can't even afford a plane ticket. And the Airbus A380 Stretch could have carried 1000 passengers. Lets see, I think it is too early for a verdict.
- Someone1234 2y ago> Lets see, I think it is too early for a verdict. This is a post about the A340, 747, DC-10 (3x engine), and A380 dying (or being already dead). What more verification do you need? Airlines can and do charge higher air-fares for direct travel.
- ghaff 2y agoAnd once business travelers largely establish the flight patterns, travelers for tourism or other personal reasons largely pay the costs that those patterns lead to.
- Beijinger 2y agoThe A380 may have been too early. The stretched version with new engines and >1000 seats could have changed things. Think about highly price sensitive customers. Iranians flying to Mecca or Indians to somewhere or Chinese. Don't think American businessmen. I said the verdict is not final because things can change: France’s Plan To Ban Short-Haul Domestic Flights Wins Approval From European Commission https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/12/03/frances-plan-to-ban-short-haul-domestic-flights-wins-approval-from-european-commission https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2022/12/03/frances-... So if countries start banning short haul domestic flights then the hub model may come back, at least in some countries with decent train transport. Combine this with the price sensitive customers I mentioned, and then I stay by my prediction. The verdict is not final.
- filleokus 2y agoPoint-to-point can lower cost as well. Cheaper to take off from a smaller airport and less fuel used since you skip an expensive take-off from the hub.
- h1srf 2y agoI remember taking the EWR-SIN flight back in the 2000s in both premium economy and business class. The first time was an experience - such a long flight. Previously I'd have to connect in Europe/Asia. Taking it when it was all business class was pretty cool. ~100 people on such a big plane.
- ajross 2y agoIt's not about the aircraft, just the engines. Engines got so much more reliable through the 80's and 90's that it made more sense (though regulation lagged a bit) to do those long haul flights with larger twin engine configurations, which are inherently more efficient (bigger fans spin faster on the outside enabling higher bypass at the same RPM). The aircraft itself was otherwise mostly common with the A330, which still sells well enough (and is being replaced by the evolved A350).
- esotericimpl 2y ago[dead]
- panick21_ 2y agoA330 isn't being replaced by A350. They just spend a lot of effort upgrading the A330 including with a new wing.
- musha68k 2y agoI'm glad to have experienced flying in the retro futuristic 747 but the Lufthansa A340-600 felt like a proper top of the line spaceship. I still can't fathom that twin engine is now deemed safe for long haul flights. I always feel uneasy when crossing the Atlantic with one.
- pc86 2y agoWhy? Any modern twin-engine plane can operate just fine on a single engine. Dual engine failure is extremely rare, especially at altitude - most of the time it's birds like the USA1549 at much lower altitudes.
- musha68k 2y agoYeah, I know all of that plus the ecological / economic side.. it still irks me. Maybe I've seen just too many failing redundant disk arrays in my career.
- potatolicious 2y agoFortunately aircraft are evaluated on a much stricter standard than hard disks...
- musha68k 2y agoYou don't say! ;P
- carabiner 2y agoYou should work on that. Generalizing tech/CS concepts to the physical world is a common shortcoming I see among SWE's. They just don't understand concepts of variability in the real world or experimental physical science.
- xattt 2y ago> Any modern twin-engine plane can operate just fine on a single engine Introducing Boeing’s latest innovation… ESOPS!
- kijin 2y agoIf I remember correctly, the A340 is the only airliner that was produced in significant numbers but was never involved in a fatal accident. There was a major crash in Canada a while ago, but even then, nobody died. Take that, Boeing.
- shaoonb 2y agoThe 787, A380, and A220 have all had no fatal accidents. No accidents at all for the A220.
- esotericimpl 2y ago777 as well, except for the fact that MH370 where the pilot deliberately brought down the plane and the other one was shot down by Russian Separatists in Ukraine.
- CarVac 2y agoThere were only 377 delivered, though.
- throw0101b 2y agoThe A340 was built before ETOPS was created to allow two-engine planes to fly over-ocean long-haul: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS Once two engines were found to be reliable enough (with sufficient contingency planning) then >2 engine planes (including three-engine like the MD-11) were not really needed.
- dsnr 2y ago> The A340 was built before ETOPS For those who don’t know, the acronym stands for Engines Turn or Passengers Swim.
- beeeeerp 2y agoSarcasm can be hard on the internet. It actually stands for: Extended-range Twin-engine Operations Performance Standards and is a pretty logically laid out standard.
- tmaly 2y agoThat is not the only thing vanishing. Boeing whistleblowers are vanishing and no one knows why.
- enopod_ 2y agoOne of the features of the A340 was that it was available with the same engines as the A320s. That made a „one engine for the entire fleet“ policy possible for airlines. Turned out, fuel costs were more important. Another fun fact: The two-engine A330 has the same fuselage, only the wings and engines are different. Airbus offers now a new, more fuel efficient engine option for the A330, which still sells and is still in production.