4 ms·

As a means to keep detailed maps out of the hands of an enemy it's indeed not great. As it's all rather obvious to reverse engineer this and people have indeed

As a means to keep detailed maps out of the hands of an enemy it's indeed not great. As it's all rather obvious to reverse engineer this and people have indeed done so. But as a means to force foreign companies to use Chinese data suppliers this works perfectly. Because using this software would be illegal in China and anyone looking to business there legally would end up having to use Chinese data centers, Chinese data suppliers, Chinese infrastructure, etc.

throwaway4good 3y ago
Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit. This is thinking from a military apparatus stuck in the 1950es.
- red_trumpet 3y ago
  Maybe not planned as a barrier, but effectively being one now? So this could be a reason why not to revert it.
  - throwaway4good 3y ago
    Once you make something a standard it is hard to get rid of it even if there is an obvious better approach. Mapping is explicitly regulated so no need for an indirect barrier. AFAIK it is the same other places. If a Chinese company wanted to do an extensive commercial map of the US it would face all sorts of regulative hurdles.
- masklinn 3y ago
  > Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit. One-way knowledge flows is an ubiquitous and consistent facet of china's commercial policies.
- nikisweeting 3y ago
  > Promote the development of surveying and mapping in the service of national economic construction. It was very transparently an economic and technical development policy from the start, it was never intended as a military policy to hinder enemy mapping ability. They do similar information control across many other industries besides maps. The CCP is very good at gatekeeping access to foreign/uncensored information through a few state-owned enterprises, then metering it out as they see fit for economic progress.
- barrkel 3y ago
  China has been for some time a mercantile state that believed trade surplus and subsidising local production would create geopolitical strategic outcomes in its favour. It's a bit less like that now as Xi drifts into a more personal dictatorship.
- dahart 3y ago
  No need to speculate. The reasons for it were stated explicitly, as the article mentions. They are, briefly, to “promote mapping” for “national economic construction”, “national defense”, and “social development”.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    To be fair, they say that about literally every initiative they undertake.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit. > This is thinking from a military apparatus stuck in the 1950es. Even if it started like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they now appreciate the unintended consequence of it serving as a "elaborate technical trade barrier."
pookha 3y ago
Pretty nuts. The entire chinese population lives in a state of perpetual formation and "harmony" with the crony capitalist thugs that operate from behind the curtain. And this is just another case of crony capitalist bullshit. It's not at all about "protecting maps from the enemy". It's about controlling and delving out access to a good-ole boy network (party members and their cronies)...The US and Europe are heading down the same paths but they'll never get to the level of maniac cult-like manipulation that China has achieved over a billion people.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
  I mean those cronies kinda made it rain money over that billion people. They transitioned the nation from an agrarian society to a major geopolitical economic player, and they've averaged double-digit annual GDP growth for over 3 decades, which is unprecedented in all of human history. The real question is what happens when they inevitably have a major economic downturn. Will the cronies lose power? Will they cling to power using violence against the opposition? Will they start a war to distract and rally their population?
  - fennecbutt 3y ago
    Lmao no. Only a small fraction ever see that wealth, the same fraction who are selling the cheap labour of the factory worker underclass: https://www.marketplace.org/2023/04/17/why-more-workers-in-china-are-ruling-out-factory-jobs/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/04/17/why-more-workers-in-c... No money raining down on the poor workers who gotta buy their own safety equipment or just deal without having any. Your job is to drip your hands in mercury every day don't like it then there are a thousand waiting to step in to replace you.
    - throw3737284 3y ago
      Lmao no. It's a large majority that have seen the wealth. Why do you think companies are leaving China? It's because the workers are now demanding more money because everyone is richer.

throwaway4good 3y ago

Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit. This is thinking from a military apparatus stuck in the 1950es.

red_trumpet 3y ago
Maybe not planned as a barrier, but effectively being one now? So this could be a reason why not to revert it.
- throwaway4good 3y ago
  Once you make something a standard it is hard to get rid of it even if there is an obvious better approach. Mapping is explicitly regulated so no need for an indirect barrier. AFAIK it is the same other places. If a Chinese company wanted to do an extensive commercial map of the US it would face all sorts of regulative hurdles.
masklinn 3y ago
> Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit. One-way knowledge flows is an ubiquitous and consistent facet of china's commercial policies.
nikisweeting 3y ago
> Promote the development of surveying and mapping in the service of national economic construction. It was very transparently an economic and technical development policy from the start, it was never intended as a military policy to hinder enemy mapping ability. They do similar information control across many other industries besides maps. The CCP is very good at gatekeeping access to foreign/uncensored information through a few state-owned enterprises, then metering it out as they see fit for economic progress.
barrkel 3y ago
China has been for some time a mercantile state that believed trade surplus and subsidising local production would create geopolitical strategic outcomes in its favour. It's a bit less like that now as Xi drifts into a more personal dictatorship.
dahart 3y ago
No need to speculate. The reasons for it were stated explicitly, as the article mentions. They are, briefly, to “promote mapping” for “national economic construction”, “national defense”, and “social development”.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  To be fair, they say that about literally every initiative they undertake.
tivert 3y ago
> Some elaborate technical trade barrier? I think that is giving them too much credit. > This is thinking from a military apparatus stuck in the 1950es. Even if it started like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they now appreciate the unintended consequence of it serving as a "elaborate technical trade barrier."

pookha 3y ago

Pretty nuts. The entire chinese population lives in a state of perpetual formation and "harmony" with the crony capitalist thugs that operate from behind the curtain. And this is just another case of crony capitalist bullshit. It's not at all about "protecting maps from the enemy". It's about controlling and delving out access to a good-ole boy network (party members and their cronies)...The US and Europe are heading down the same paths but they'll never get to the level of maniac cult-like manipulation that China has achieved over a billion people.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
I mean those cronies kinda made it rain money over that billion people. They transitioned the nation from an agrarian society to a major geopolitical economic player, and they've averaged double-digit annual GDP growth for over 3 decades, which is unprecedented in all of human history. The real question is what happens when they inevitably have a major economic downturn. Will the cronies lose power? Will they cling to power using violence against the opposition? Will they start a war to distract and rally their population?
- fennecbutt 3y ago
  Lmao no. Only a small fraction ever see that wealth, the same fraction who are selling the cheap labour of the factory worker underclass: https://www.marketplace.org/2023/04/17/why-more-workers-in-china-are-ruling-out-factory-jobs/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/04/17/why-more-workers-in-c... No money raining down on the poor workers who gotta buy their own safety equipment or just deal without having any. Your job is to drip your hands in mercury every day don't like it then there are a thousand waiting to step in to replace you.
  - throw3737284 3y ago
    Lmao no. It's a large majority that have seen the wealth. Why do you think companies are leaving China? It's because the workers are now demanding more money because everyone is richer.