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Because Chinese law forbids to convert their coordinates to WGS84, and using the Chinese coordinates for satellite data would give a discontinuity at the border

Because Chinese law forbids to convert their coordinates to WGS84, and using the Chinese coordinates for satellite data would give a discontinuity at the border. This is explained in the article.

KTibow 2y ago
If Google didn't mind breaking the law they could use the previously mentioned, public code to convert the coordinates to the standard format. Could be that it wouldn't be worth it to implement that though.
Reason077 2y ago
Discontinuity at the border isn't a big issue compared to all locations in the country being wrong relative to the satellite view. If Google cared enough, I'm sure they could find a solution - since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws. But Google doesn't operate in China so they don't care that much and are presumably happy to leave things the way they are. Also, keeping things the way they are keeps drawing attention to the issue, which is probably better than to try and cover it up.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  > since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws I suspect that in practice that’s not true; there are a lot of ways China could make life difficult for a big international tech company, from looking the other way regarding IP theft to arresting people associated with Google on spying charges when they’re there on personal trips
  - rob74 2y ago
    Also, Google currently doesn't really have a presence in China (and, despite some to-and-fro, currently doesn't intend to reenter the market either), so it's probably not that important to them to fix these issues. I wonder if they actively update the map or if it's stuck at some point in the past? This isn't the first time they have done something like this, Germany was stuck with Street View imagery from 2008 (and limited to larger cities) until some time last year when they decided to finally start updating it again. This was due to some privacy hubbub back when StreetView was introduced that resulted in a law allowing building owners and/or inhabitants to request that their building be blurred on StreetView. Mind you, this law didn't forbid StreetView, but it looks like Google just lost interest, or decided to wait it out...
    - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
      Google probably make a lot of money from Chinese advertisers, so it's unlikely that they'd antagonise the Chinese government and risk losing that cash.
    - oldherl 2y ago
      Wrong. There are Google offices in Beijing and Shanghai, where local software engineers are employed to work there. They develop software for global usage for Google. Google just stopped providing services in China.
      - rob74 2y ago
        Sorry - by "presence" I meant providing services in China, not having offices there.
- weinzierl 2y ago
  "since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws" Well, they buy the data from one of the few blessed Chinese companies, which is a form of doing business, and regardless what Chinese law says Google has most likely a contractual obligation not to convert the data. In other words, if they did convert the data they'd probably not get updates anymore.
- vitus 2y ago
  > since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws. Google search may not operate in China, but that doesn't mean that we have no business or service presence in China. For instance, from 2017 up until 2022, Google Translate was available in-country [0]. [0] https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-china-social-media-bcce585da6268eaab599b1f3c85b74d4 https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-china-social-...
- computerfriend 2y ago
  A significant portion of Google's Hong Kong office is dedicated to business development in China.
Kadin 2y ago
That's only interesting to the extent that an organization has operations in China. Google was mostly ejected from the Chinese market years ago, I thought -- hence Baidu largely taking its place there. It would be telling if despite that rejection, they were still open to taking direction from Beijing. Google at one point was fairly friendly with US DoD. Clearly the national loyalty of multinationals isn't guaranteed.
- yorwba 2y ago
  Google was not ejected from the Chinese market, they decided to remove most of their products after Gmail was hacked. https://www.google.cn https://www.google.cn used to show censored search results, now it only has a link to https://www.google.com.hk https://www.google.com.hk , which is blocked because it lacks search result censorship. But Google could use the domain for something new in the future should they choose to. In particular, Google Ads continue to be available: https://ads.google.cn https://ads.google.cn They even offer WeChat customer service! As long as they can keep the ad money flowing, Google will comply with all necessary laws and regulations.

Because Chinese law forbids to convert their coordinates to WGS84, and using the Chinese coordinates for satellite data would give a discontinuity at the border. This is explained in the article.

KTibow 2y ago

If Google didn't mind breaking the law they could use the previously mentioned, public code to convert the coordinates to the standard format. Could be that it wouldn't be worth it to implement that though.

Reason077 2y ago

Discontinuity at the border isn't a big issue compared to all locations in the country being wrong relative to the satellite view. If Google cared enough, I'm sure they could find a solution - since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws. But Google doesn't operate in China so they don't care that much and are presumably happy to leave things the way they are. Also, keeping things the way they are keeps drawing attention to the issue, which is probably better than to try and cover it up.

petesergeant 2y ago
> since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws I suspect that in practice that’s not true; there are a lot of ways China could make life difficult for a big international tech company, from looking the other way regarding IP theft to arresting people associated with Google on spying charges when they’re there on personal trips
- rob74 2y ago
  Also, Google currently doesn't really have a presence in China (and, despite some to-and-fro, currently doesn't intend to reenter the market either), so it's probably not that important to them to fix these issues. I wonder if they actively update the map or if it's stuck at some point in the past? This isn't the first time they have done something like this, Germany was stuck with Street View imagery from 2008 (and limited to larger cities) until some time last year when they decided to finally start updating it again. This was due to some privacy hubbub back when StreetView was introduced that resulted in a law allowing building owners and/or inhabitants to request that their building be blurred on StreetView. Mind you, this law didn't forbid StreetView, but it looks like Google just lost interest, or decided to wait it out...
  - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    Google probably make a lot of money from Chinese advertisers, so it's unlikely that they'd antagonise the Chinese government and risk losing that cash.
  - oldherl 2y ago
    Wrong. There are Google offices in Beijing and Shanghai, where local software engineers are employed to work there. They develop software for global usage for Google. Google just stopped providing services in China.
    - rob74 2y ago
      Sorry - by "presence" I meant providing services in China, not having offices there.
weinzierl 2y ago
"since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws" Well, they buy the data from one of the few blessed Chinese companies, which is a form of doing business, and regardless what Chinese law says Google has most likely a contractual obligation not to convert the data. In other words, if they did convert the data they'd probably not get updates anymore.
vitus 2y ago
> since Google doesn't operate in China, they don't really have to respect Chinese laws. Google search may not operate in China, but that doesn't mean that we have no business or service presence in China. For instance, from 2017 up until 2022, Google Translate was available in-country [0]. [0] https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-china-social-media-bcce585da6268eaab599b1f3c85b74d4 https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-china-social-...
computerfriend 2y ago
A significant portion of Google's Hong Kong office is dedicated to business development in China.

Kadin 2y ago

That's only interesting to the extent that an organization has operations in China. Google was mostly ejected from the Chinese market years ago, I thought -- hence Baidu largely taking its place there. It would be telling if despite that rejection, they were still open to taking direction from Beijing. Google at one point was fairly friendly with US DoD. Clearly the national loyalty of multinationals isn't guaranteed.

yorwba 2y ago
Google was not ejected from the Chinese market, they decided to remove most of their products after Gmail was hacked. https://www.google.cn https://www.google.cn used to show censored search results, now it only has a link to https://www.google.com.hk https://www.google.com.hk , which is blocked because it lacks search result censorship. But Google could use the domain for something new in the future should they choose to. In particular, Google Ads continue to be available: https://ads.google.cn https://ads.google.cn They even offer WeChat customer service! As long as they can keep the ad money flowing, Google will comply with all necessary laws and regulations.