4 ms·

Hyundai is spending $1B to keep self-driving startup Motional alive

50 points by harambae 2y ago

teruakohatu 2y ago
> Hyundai will spend another $448 million to buy 11% of Aptiv’s common equity interest in Motional It seems the company has retained its $4b valuation from 2019.
pdevr 2y ago
As part of the deal, Hyundai is also getting control of Aptiv, with 85% of the shares. It will be interesting to see what Hyundai will do with it.
- jcrben 2y ago
  I don't think so. This is just for Aptiv's investment. Looks like Aptiv (APTV) will remain separate.
- harambae 2y ago
  Aptiv is a ~$21B market cap company and Hyundai didn't buy any portion of Aptiv (as far as I know). Hyundai and Aptiv were joint venture owners of Motional (50/50). Motional is privately held and worth around $4B or $5B. Hyundai bought out some of Aptiv's stake and also invested some more in Motional. Hyundai spent ~$1B.
- pdevr 2y ago
  I cannot edit this anymore. Yes, meant that the control Aptiv had over Motional will now be with Hyundai, practically. The point I was trying to make was that this was titled in Aptiv's Q1 presentation [1] as "APTIV EQUITY INTEREST TO BE REDUCED FROM 50% TO 15%". That is, they will offload most of the control to Hyundai. Immediately, Aptiv shares rose. So for some reason, this is seen as a good thing by Aptiv shareholders. My point was and is: Considering the above aspect, it will be interesting to see how Hyundai will make use of it. [1] https://s22.q4cdn.com/336558720/files/doc_presentations/2024/05/Aptiv-Q1-2024-Earnings-Presentation.pdf https://s22.q4cdn.com/336558720/files/doc_presentations/2024...
langsoul-com 2y ago
Is it really worth it to invest that much money into self driving. Like the sheer numbers is out of this world. Surely there's better investments.
- baq 2y ago
  If you figure it out the reward is easily 100x that.
  - Animats 2y ago
    Not clear. Waymo has made it work, but cost per car and per ride is still very high. That should come down over time. It's not clear that this is a hugely profitable business. It's basically auto rental and taxi service, after all.
    - emanuele232 2y ago
      because waymo relies on a continuous mapping of the cities you can take it. that's why it is available in few US cities, but this does not scale at all. The point of those startups (and tesla's) is to produce something that can drive everywhere whitout prior information (fantasy world right now)
      - michaelmior 2y ago
        As far as the scaling, I think some would have said the same about Google Street View, but now the majority of streets in the country are mapped out. Google already has the infrastructure to be able to do the necessary mapping. And as Waymo cars become more common, I suspect they'll be able to fill in a lot of the gaps.
        emanuele232 2y ago
        street view has images from years ago depending on where the google cars are mapping in that moment, waymo needs constant mapping of the cities it has cars in, therefore needing more man-hours. furthermore the driving laws differs from country to country, and in most of the world the road paint/signs are borderline indescifrable for a human, let alone a machine. i'm not saying that it can't be done, but it is already expensive in big US cities, it just do not scale well.
cyclecount 2y ago
Self-driving tech is really a bet auto manufacturers are making for the US market. Most of the developed world will move away from individual vehicles for anything besides the last mile in the next decades. Modern countries will have extensive train networks (already somewhat self-driving), but the US' faux-democracy does not allow for incumbent technologies like the automobile to be supplanted.
- jajko 2y ago
  This is such a pipe dream, your pipe must be heavily clogged at this point. I live in Switzerland, it doesn't get more developed re infrastructure on country level than this really. Car ownership ain't going away, train network is fine but a) ridiculously expensive and prices are raising each year; b) certainly not good enough for many many tasks, unless you like spending 2h in trains/buses instead of 30 mins in the car, sometimes there is just nothing. Yes you can arrange your life and simply experience less, but why the heck would anybody do that? Private car ownership is at all time high and not slowing down, there are visibly more and more cars on the roads every year. Self-driving may change that, once it comes. I estimate 2040 earliest en masse, musk poisoned that pond pretty badly with his lies and unfulfilled promises. It just became a no-topic for next decade and some.
- zipping1549 2y ago
  > Most of the developed world will move away from individual vehicles for anything besides the last mile in the next decades. I live in Seoul where despite its jokingly small size, people have car(s). We already have highspeed rails and everything. Cars are definitely not going anywhere unless specifically went against it by governemntal policies.
- BaculumMeumEst 2y ago
  Well thank God for that because I would rather not risk getting assaulted on the train, or ride with people shooting up and vaping, or experience it catching fire underground and breathing in enough smoke from an electrical fire to guarantee cancer, all of which happen regularly around here. Give me those robo taxis, baby.

50 points by harambae 2y ago

> Hyundai will spend another $448 million to buy 11% of Aptiv’s common equity interest in Motional It seems the company has retained its $4b valuation from 2019.

pdevr 2y ago

As part of the deal, Hyundai is also getting control of Aptiv, with 85% of the shares. It will be interesting to see what Hyundai will do with it.

jcrben 2y ago
I don't think so. This is just for Aptiv's investment. Looks like Aptiv (APTV) will remain separate.
harambae 2y ago
Aptiv is a ~$21B market cap company and Hyundai didn't buy any portion of Aptiv (as far as I know). Hyundai and Aptiv were joint venture owners of Motional (50/50). Motional is privately held and worth around $4B or $5B. Hyundai bought out some of Aptiv's stake and also invested some more in Motional. Hyundai spent ~$1B.
pdevr 2y ago
I cannot edit this anymore. Yes, meant that the control Aptiv had over Motional will now be with Hyundai, practically. The point I was trying to make was that this was titled in Aptiv's Q1 presentation [1] as "APTIV EQUITY INTEREST TO BE REDUCED FROM 50% TO 15%". That is, they will offload most of the control to Hyundai. Immediately, Aptiv shares rose. So for some reason, this is seen as a good thing by Aptiv shareholders. My point was and is: Considering the above aspect, it will be interesting to see how Hyundai will make use of it. [1] https://s22.q4cdn.com/336558720/files/doc_presentations/2024/05/Aptiv-Q1-2024-Earnings-Presentation.pdf https://s22.q4cdn.com/336558720/files/doc_presentations/2024...

langsoul-com 2y ago

Is it really worth it to invest that much money into self driving. Like the sheer numbers is out of this world. Surely there's better investments.

baq 2y ago
If you figure it out the reward is easily 100x that.
- Animats 2y ago
  Not clear. Waymo has made it work, but cost per car and per ride is still very high. That should come down over time. It's not clear that this is a hugely profitable business. It's basically auto rental and taxi service, after all.
  - emanuele232 2y ago
    because waymo relies on a continuous mapping of the cities you can take it. that's why it is available in few US cities, but this does not scale at all. The point of those startups (and tesla's) is to produce something that can drive everywhere whitout prior information (fantasy world right now)
    - michaelmior 2y ago
      As far as the scaling, I think some would have said the same about Google Street View, but now the majority of streets in the country are mapped out. Google already has the infrastructure to be able to do the necessary mapping. And as Waymo cars become more common, I suspect they'll be able to fill in a lot of the gaps.
      - emanuele232 2y ago
        street view has images from years ago depending on where the google cars are mapping in that moment, waymo needs constant mapping of the cities it has cars in, therefore needing more man-hours. furthermore the driving laws differs from country to country, and in most of the world the road paint/signs are borderline indescifrable for a human, let alone a machine. i'm not saying that it can't be done, but it is already expensive in big US cities, it just do not scale well.

cyclecount 2y ago

Self-driving tech is really a bet auto manufacturers are making for the US market. Most of the developed world will move away from individual vehicles for anything besides the last mile in the next decades. Modern countries will have extensive train networks (already somewhat self-driving), but the US' faux-democracy does not allow for incumbent technologies like the automobile to be supplanted.

jajko 2y ago
This is such a pipe dream, your pipe must be heavily clogged at this point. I live in Switzerland, it doesn't get more developed re infrastructure on country level than this really. Car ownership ain't going away, train network is fine but a) ridiculously expensive and prices are raising each year; b) certainly not good enough for many many tasks, unless you like spending 2h in trains/buses instead of 30 mins in the car, sometimes there is just nothing. Yes you can arrange your life and simply experience less, but why the heck would anybody do that? Private car ownership is at all time high and not slowing down, there are visibly more and more cars on the roads every year. Self-driving may change that, once it comes. I estimate 2040 earliest en masse, musk poisoned that pond pretty badly with his lies and unfulfilled promises. It just became a no-topic for next decade and some.
zipping1549 2y ago
> Most of the developed world will move away from individual vehicles for anything besides the last mile in the next decades. I live in Seoul where despite its jokingly small size, people have car(s). We already have highspeed rails and everything. Cars are definitely not going anywhere unless specifically went against it by governemntal policies.
BaculumMeumEst 2y ago
Well thank God for that because I would rather not risk getting assaulted on the train, or ride with people shooting up and vaping, or experience it catching fire underground and breathing in enough smoke from an electrical fire to guarantee cancer, all of which happen regularly around here. Give me those robo taxis, baby.