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I use Proton Drive [1], they offer e2ee but I agree with you: the Dropbox app experience is probably still the best. [1] https://proton.me/drive https://proton

I use Proton Drive [1], they offer e2ee but I agree with you: the Dropbox app experience is probably still the best. [1] https://proton.me/drive https://proton.me/drive

amelius 2y ago
OK, so there is no fundamental obstacle for providing true e2ee.
- nicce 2y ago
  Of course there isn't, but it limits efficiency and features. For example, you will miss all the fancy features Google Images does in cloud and user experience might be slower, since everything must be processed and downloaded on client side. Some level of metadata is always unencrypted.
  - amelius 2y ago
    That's trading one feature for a bunch of others. Users should have the choice of what features they think are important.
    - macintux 2y ago
      They typically do, by picking the product they wish to use.
- basil-rash 2y ago
  Of course not. It’s just storing bits at the end of the day. But storing seemingly random bits will always be more expensive than storing predictable bits, and this case is no exception: Proton is roughly 4x more expensive per bit than Dropbox.
- repelsteeltje 2y ago
  What I'd really like is for the encryption to be plugable and orthogonal to file syncing. Ie: authentication with dropbox/proton/bittorrent concerns only that you pay your storage/ingest/egress bill, but is otherwise unprotected and in the clear. Encryption of the file payload and metadata as a "bring-your-own" — on device — stream cypher (and key derivation, key management). Key exchange and sharing among devices or users might then use yet another service or mechanism. Pretty sure presenting all that in a slick easy to understand way has significant challenges, but it would be great to alleviate some of the dropbox as a single point of failure.
  - cyberpunk 2y ago
    So kinda like how rclone does encrypted backends?
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  Was the question whether or not it is hypothetically possible to provide an E2EE storage service? Surely you can apply your engineering chops here. Of course it isn’t. But there are trade-offs, as with literally any engineering choice.
- whatevaa 2y ago
  It is very complicated to get this right from development standpoint. In true E2E, client must be "fat", kitchen sink and everything. Pretty sure Dropbox isn't like that right now. E2E is not a "feature", it is like a different paradigm of problem solving.

I use Proton Drive [1], they offer e2ee but I agree with you: the Dropbox app experience is probably still the best. [1] https://proton.me/drive https://proton.me/drive

amelius 2y ago

OK, so there is no fundamental obstacle for providing true e2ee.

nicce 2y ago
Of course there isn't, but it limits efficiency and features. For example, you will miss all the fancy features Google Images does in cloud and user experience might be slower, since everything must be processed and downloaded on client side. Some level of metadata is always unencrypted.
- amelius 2y ago
  That's trading one feature for a bunch of others. Users should have the choice of what features they think are important.
  - macintux 2y ago
    They typically do, by picking the product they wish to use.
basil-rash 2y ago
Of course not. It’s just storing bits at the end of the day. But storing seemingly random bits will always be more expensive than storing predictable bits, and this case is no exception: Proton is roughly 4x more expensive per bit than Dropbox.
repelsteeltje 2y ago
What I'd really like is for the encryption to be plugable and orthogonal to file syncing. Ie: authentication with dropbox/proton/bittorrent concerns only that you pay your storage/ingest/egress bill, but is otherwise unprotected and in the clear. Encryption of the file payload and metadata as a "bring-your-own" — on device — stream cypher (and key derivation, key management). Key exchange and sharing among devices or users might then use yet another service or mechanism. Pretty sure presenting all that in a slick easy to understand way has significant challenges, but it would be great to alleviate some of the dropbox as a single point of failure.
- cyberpunk 2y ago
  So kinda like how rclone does encrypted backends?
cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
Was the question whether or not it is hypothetically possible to provide an E2EE storage service? Surely you can apply your engineering chops here. Of course it isn’t. But there are trade-offs, as with literally any engineering choice.
whatevaa 2y ago
It is very complicated to get this right from development standpoint. In true E2E, client must be "fat", kitchen sink and everything. Pretty sure Dropbox isn't like that right now. E2E is not a "feature", it is like a different paradigm of problem solving.