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> does the global medical establishment even have a chance at salvaging the reputation of mRNA? AstraZeneca's Covishield is not an mRNA vaccine; it is a viral

> does the global medical establishment even have a chance at salvaging the reputation of mRNA? AstraZeneca's Covishield is not an mRNA vaccine; it is a viral vector vaccine, using Adenovirus. The small possibility of blood clots was acknowledged by medical authorities after a few months of use, with some jurisdictions going so far as to suspend its use, citing the mRNA vaccines as a safer alternative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COV...

anonym29 2y ago
[flagged]
- fleventynine 2y ago
  > but these blood clot deaths with negative COVID tests were not unique to the AstraZeneca vaccine I think Johnson and Johnson's covid vaccine (also an adenovirus vaccine) was also associated with blood clots, but do you have any evidence of clots with the mRNA vaccines? I recall reports of Myocarditis in younger men that got little value from the mRNA vaccines, but this is the first I've heard of blood clots.
- CyberDildonics 2y ago
  https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-001200_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-00120... Deaths: 1 579 for the AstraZeneca vaccine;. The EMA notes that no causal link has been confirmed: ‘The fact that someone has had a medical issue or died after vaccination does not necessarily mean that this was caused by the vaccine. Even though this is the EU, your 'hundreds of thousands died' is not true in any way and is a lie. You were told it is not an mRNA vaccine which you are ignoring. "okay, you might get it, but you won't spread it" This ignores the evolution of the virus itself into variants which changed the efficacy of the vaccines based off of previous variants. What you're saying here is classic anti-vax stuff. "I'm just skeptical, I don't trust medicine now" while offering up totally false information. Never mind that vaccines rapidly stopped covid from flooding hospitals killing people and giving them long term problems. Now it's not a problem and the only thing that slowed down progress was people spreading misinformation and lies.
  - anonym29 2y ago
    I'm not sure who you're talking about, I've noted above that I still find the medical establishment trustworthy, and that my kids are fully vaccinated. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, but there were studies done that showed excess fatalities NOT attributable to COVID were correlated with the vaccination rate of the country. This also doesn't mean individual vaccines are unsafe, as that is still a very rare occurrence. Consider that if 4 billion people get a vaccine with a 1/10,000 (0.01%) chance of causing myocarditis / blood clots / other side effects resulting in sudden death, that would still mean 400,000 dead, and those deaths aren't meaningless to the families they affect. It's very insensitive to accuse those who've lost loved ones and then continued to get boosters anyway because it's the right thing to do of pushing a "classic anti-vax agenda"
    - CyberDildonics 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - defrost 2y ago
      Consider that the actual chance of TTS (clots) is about 2 per 100,000 (ten times less than your "guess") and that when these issues occur they are NOT always fatal - in a country of 20 million that all get the Astra-Z vaccine 400 people will have a TTS side affect and perhaps 2 of those might die. Consider, also, the real world where such things were noticed early on, where Astra-Z use was downgraded, and community health centes were advised to stay alert for issues. ie. 4 billion people did not get a vaccine with TTS issues. See, for example: https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/advice-for-providers/clinical-guidance/tts https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/advice-... and note well AstraZeneca is no longer available in Australia
  - Izkata 2y ago
    > "okay, you might get it, but you won't spread it" > This ignores the evolution of the virus itself into variants which changed the efficacy of the vaccines based off of previous variants. The trials that gave us the very high efficacy numbers didn't test infection/transmission at all. More than likely nothing changed here, and the messaging was just a lie by people who didn't understand the press releases, which only said it prevents sickness.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
  To whatever extent a cancer vaccine turns out to be effective, those people will be free to continue dying of cancer at a higher rate than the rest of the population. It's not contagious like covid. If they want to hold a grudge about chaotic messaging and policy in the early fog of war of a novel global public health crisis forever, then cool for them.
  - anonym29 2y ago
    [flagged]
squigz 2y ago
> AstraZeneca's Covishield is not an mRNA vaccine I wouldn't expect this distinction to matter much

anonym29 2y ago

[flagged]

fleventynine 2y ago
> but these blood clot deaths with negative COVID tests were not unique to the AstraZeneca vaccine I think Johnson and Johnson's covid vaccine (also an adenovirus vaccine) was also associated with blood clots, but do you have any evidence of clots with the mRNA vaccines? I recall reports of Myocarditis in younger men that got little value from the mRNA vaccines, but this is the first I've heard of blood clots.
CyberDildonics 2y ago
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-001200_EN.html https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-00120... Deaths: 1 579 for the AstraZeneca vaccine;. The EMA notes that no causal link has been confirmed: ‘The fact that someone has had a medical issue or died after vaccination does not necessarily mean that this was caused by the vaccine. Even though this is the EU, your 'hundreds of thousands died' is not true in any way and is a lie. You were told it is not an mRNA vaccine which you are ignoring. "okay, you might get it, but you won't spread it" This ignores the evolution of the virus itself into variants which changed the efficacy of the vaccines based off of previous variants. What you're saying here is classic anti-vax stuff. "I'm just skeptical, I don't trust medicine now" while offering up totally false information. Never mind that vaccines rapidly stopped covid from flooding hospitals killing people and giving them long term problems. Now it's not a problem and the only thing that slowed down progress was people spreading misinformation and lies.
- anonym29 2y ago
  I'm not sure who you're talking about, I've noted above that I still find the medical establishment trustworthy, and that my kids are fully vaccinated. I'm fully vaccinated and boosted, but there were studies done that showed excess fatalities NOT attributable to COVID were correlated with the vaccination rate of the country. This also doesn't mean individual vaccines are unsafe, as that is still a very rare occurrence. Consider that if 4 billion people get a vaccine with a 1/10,000 (0.01%) chance of causing myocarditis / blood clots / other side effects resulting in sudden death, that would still mean 400,000 dead, and those deaths aren't meaningless to the families they affect. It's very insensitive to accuse those who've lost loved ones and then continued to get boosters anyway because it's the right thing to do of pushing a "classic anti-vax agenda"
  - CyberDildonics 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - defrost 2y ago
    Consider that the actual chance of TTS (clots) is about 2 per 100,000 (ten times less than your "guess") and that when these issues occur they are NOT always fatal - in a country of 20 million that all get the Astra-Z vaccine 400 people will have a TTS side affect and perhaps 2 of those might die. Consider, also, the real world where such things were noticed early on, where Astra-Z use was downgraded, and community health centes were advised to stay alert for issues. ie. 4 billion people did not get a vaccine with TTS issues. See, for example: https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/advice-for-providers/clinical-guidance/tts https://www.health.gov.au/our-work/covid-19-vaccines/advice-... and note well AstraZeneca is no longer available in Australia
- Izkata 2y ago
  > "okay, you might get it, but you won't spread it" > This ignores the evolution of the virus itself into variants which changed the efficacy of the vaccines based off of previous variants. The trials that gave us the very high efficacy numbers didn't test infection/transmission at all. More than likely nothing changed here, and the messaging was just a lie by people who didn't understand the press releases, which only said it prevents sickness.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
To whatever extent a cancer vaccine turns out to be effective, those people will be free to continue dying of cancer at a higher rate than the rest of the population. It's not contagious like covid. If they want to hold a grudge about chaotic messaging and policy in the early fog of war of a novel global public health crisis forever, then cool for them.
- anonym29 2y ago
  [flagged]

squigz 2y ago

> AstraZeneca's Covishield is not an mRNA vaccine I wouldn't expect this distinction to matter much