4 ms·

Because some of the USA (notably the north east) still gives a shit about the communities where they live rather than embracing rugged frontier individualism a

Because some of the USA (notably the north east) still gives a shit about the communities where they live rather than embracing rugged frontier individualism a la "trust no one, and get yours first." Just because you own something doesn't mean you get a free pass to be a nuisance to others. Laws are there to keep society together, not to enable antisocial proclivities.

shermantanktop 2y ago
A very, very right-wing coworker once said to me: "There is no such thing as society. There is no such thing as common good. These are fictions created to control you." I was happy he had identified our fundamental disagreement so that we didn't have to argue further.
- financltravsty 2y ago
  Yes, now throw him out deep into the Mongolian steppes and see how he fares without modern supply chains. Everyone's a libertarian until you take away the fruits of industry.
  - beaeglebeachh 2y ago
    Mutual benefit is a thing, industry works fine when everyone is driven by selfishness as no one agrees to a transaction unless both parties are better off. I'd much sooner live with that coworker in the steppes than cheerman mao or other charlatans in Asian history proclaiming about the common good.
ok_dad 2y ago
Check out Japan zoning laws, pal. I’m not some rugged individual, but I still believe in reasonable freedoms. Japan doesn’t have issues with nuisances with their zoning system. Far from it.
- financltravsty 2y ago
  That's a cultural artifact. The same as why HOAs proliferated outside the puritan colonies: people could not be trusted to self-govern and self-regulate towards a common good. Japan doesn't have issues with nuisances because -- culturally -- they're more aware of the effect their actions have on the world around them. The same cannot be said for a large portion of the U.S.A. I'm of the opinion freedom as a detached goal for its own sake is a puerile pursuit, and a big driver of why we can't have nice things.
  - tomek_ycomb 2y ago
    Are you sure / do you have specific Japanese knowledge? My gut assumption, not having Japanese knowledge, was always that the production needs of WWII incentivized their mixed commercial -residential system. It does seem that a mixed commercial -residential system would work better with a conscientious of neighbors society, but the zoning itself is also key

shermantanktop 2y ago

A very, very right-wing coworker once said to me: "There is no such thing as society. There is no such thing as common good. These are fictions created to control you." I was happy he had identified our fundamental disagreement so that we didn't have to argue further.

financltravsty 2y ago
Yes, now throw him out deep into the Mongolian steppes and see how he fares without modern supply chains. Everyone's a libertarian until you take away the fruits of industry.
- beaeglebeachh 2y ago
  Mutual benefit is a thing, industry works fine when everyone is driven by selfishness as no one agrees to a transaction unless both parties are better off. I'd much sooner live with that coworker in the steppes than cheerman mao or other charlatans in Asian history proclaiming about the common good.

ok_dad 2y ago

Check out Japan zoning laws, pal. I’m not some rugged individual, but I still believe in reasonable freedoms. Japan doesn’t have issues with nuisances with their zoning system. Far from it.

financltravsty 2y ago
That's a cultural artifact. The same as why HOAs proliferated outside the puritan colonies: people could not be trusted to self-govern and self-regulate towards a common good. Japan doesn't have issues with nuisances because -- culturally -- they're more aware of the effect their actions have on the world around them. The same cannot be said for a large portion of the U.S.A. I'm of the opinion freedom as a detached goal for its own sake is a puerile pursuit, and a big driver of why we can't have nice things.
- tomek_ycomb 2y ago
  Are you sure / do you have specific Japanese knowledge? My gut assumption, not having Japanese knowledge, was always that the production needs of WWII incentivized their mixed commercial -residential system. It does seem that a mixed commercial -residential system would work better with a conscientious of neighbors society, but the zoning itself is also key