5 ms·

I've always heard that in Japan people don't generally buy a house to live in, preferring to knock it down and build a new construction. That seems like it woul

by neaden 2y ago

I've always heard that in Japan people don't generally buy a house to live in, preferring to knock it down and build a new construction. That seems like it would be an important contributor since this is more like how many empty lots there are. Edit: Here's an article about it that was posted last year https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36952874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36952874

coffeebeqn 2y ago
They at least used to build houses that they expect to get destroyed by natural disasters
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- RockRobotRock 2y ago
  Just because the construction is cheap doesn't mean they're prone to falling down. They probably have the strictest earthquake codes in the world.
  - underlipton 2y ago
    Historically, not earthquakes; fire (or tsunami, if you're by the coast).
  - kalleboo 2y ago
    > They probably have the strictest earthquake codes in the world. They do now, but a lot of these old houses that nobody wants predate them. The big earthquake-resistant building codes came in 1981 and 2000. Nobody would think anything of buying a house from 1980 in the west, but in Japan I would never do it (a large factor in the death toll of the Noto quake earlier this year was the high level of pre-1981 housing stock in the area). As newer, safer, houses start filling up the used housing stock I can totally see attitudes slowly changing.
timr 2y ago
True, but becoming less common as build quality increases. Setting aside woo-woo explanations (e.g. "people are afraid of ghosts"), the primary driver of this phenomenon was/is that older construction isn't up to code, and costs more to bring up to code than to knock down and rebuild. Houses with more intrinsic value -- for example, traditional timber-frame homes, or machiya in Kyoto -- have more interest for remodelers, even today.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- lmm 2y ago
  A cultural preference for new-build is not woo-woo. Americans will pay more for a lower-quality "new" car than a higher-quality "used" one, do you consider that woo-woo?
  - stubish 2y ago
    Pay more for a lower-quality car than a higher-quality one. Marketing and other social conditioning, so woo-woo sounds about right. While there are certainly reasons to buy new cars over old in many cases (features, maintenance & ongoing costs), the main driver for new cars is prestige. In Thailand for instance, you wanted to leave the red dealer plates on for as long as possible, because everyone could see you have a new car.
m463 2y ago
Although it mentions urban houses, most of them seem to be rural. I can imagine this is significant because japanese cities are probably very pleasant to live in, since they are safe and people are very self controlled. (cities in the US for instance, generally have city benefits, but on balance require street smarts and caution)
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  > (cities in the US for instance, generally have city benefits, but on balance require street smarts and caution) In many US cities the crime rate is below what it is in rural areas. As a counterpoint: being non-Japanese and attracting the attention of the police goes very poorly. Some Japanese go out of their way to try and start trouble with foreigners, then claim you assaulted them, and bam, you're into a criminal justice system with a 99% conviction rate and some of the worst prison conditions in the developed world.
  - lettergram 2y ago
    It’s pretty different crime. Rural crime is often “someone stole something from my yard” or “someone hit my mailbox with a bat”. City crime is “I was robbed at gun point” or “someone hit me with a bat”
    - callalex 2y ago
      How did you come to that conclusion? Did you look at any published statistics or just go with your gut feeling based on stereotypes? I suspect it’s the latter, because property crime in the city outnumbers violent crime by nearly an entire order of magnitude. This isn’t even considering how a large number of property crimes go unreported since there is a near-zero chance of the police doing anything about it. Here’s an example: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2024-03/SFPDCrimeReport_January2024_20240311.pdf https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2024-...
      - lettergram 2y ago
Tiktaalik 2y ago
The tax code incentivizes knocking houses down. The property transfer tax is lower on bare land than it is on land with improvements. So if you're going to sell your house you may get a more eager buyer if you knock it down first.

by neaden 2y ago

coffeebeqn 2y ago

They at least used to build houses that they expect to get destroyed by natural disasters

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
RockRobotRock 2y ago
Just because the construction is cheap doesn't mean they're prone to falling down. They probably have the strictest earthquake codes in the world.
- underlipton 2y ago
  Historically, not earthquakes; fire (or tsunami, if you're by the coast).
- kalleboo 2y ago
  > They probably have the strictest earthquake codes in the world. They do now, but a lot of these old houses that nobody wants predate them. The big earthquake-resistant building codes came in 1981 and 2000. Nobody would think anything of buying a house from 1980 in the west, but in Japan I would never do it (a large factor in the death toll of the Noto quake earlier this year was the high level of pre-1981 housing stock in the area). As newer, safer, houses start filling up the used housing stock I can totally see attitudes slowly changing.

timr 2y ago

True, but becoming less common as build quality increases. Setting aside woo-woo explanations (e.g. "people are afraid of ghosts"), the primary driver of this phenomenon was/is that older construction isn't up to code, and costs more to bring up to code than to knock down and rebuild. Houses with more intrinsic value -- for example, traditional timber-frame homes, or machiya in Kyoto -- have more interest for remodelers, even today.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lmm 2y ago
A cultural preference for new-build is not woo-woo. Americans will pay more for a lower-quality "new" car than a higher-quality "used" one, do you consider that woo-woo?
- stubish 2y ago
  Pay more for a lower-quality car than a higher-quality one. Marketing and other social conditioning, so woo-woo sounds about right. While there are certainly reasons to buy new cars over old in many cases (features, maintenance & ongoing costs), the main driver for new cars is prestige. In Thailand for instance, you wanted to leave the red dealer plates on for as long as possible, because everyone could see you have a new car.

m463 2y ago

Although it mentions urban houses, most of them seem to be rural. I can imagine this is significant because japanese cities are probably very pleasant to live in, since they are safe and people are very self controlled. (cities in the US for instance, generally have city benefits, but on balance require street smarts and caution)

KennyBlanken 2y ago
> (cities in the US for instance, generally have city benefits, but on balance require street smarts and caution) In many US cities the crime rate is below what it is in rural areas. As a counterpoint: being non-Japanese and attracting the attention of the police goes very poorly. Some Japanese go out of their way to try and start trouble with foreigners, then claim you assaulted them, and bam, you're into a criminal justice system with a 99% conviction rate and some of the worst prison conditions in the developed world.
- lettergram 2y ago
  It’s pretty different crime. Rural crime is often “someone stole something from my yard” or “someone hit my mailbox with a bat”. City crime is “I was robbed at gun point” or “someone hit me with a bat”
  - callalex 2y ago
    How did you come to that conclusion? Did you look at any published statistics or just go with your gut feeling based on stereotypes? I suspect it’s the latter, because property crime in the city outnumbers violent crime by nearly an entire order of magnitude. This isn’t even considering how a large number of property crimes go unreported since there is a near-zero chance of the police doing anything about it. Here’s an example: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2024-03/SFPDCrimeReport_January2024_20240311.pdf https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/sites/default/files/2024-...
    - lettergram 2y ago

Tiktaalik 2y ago

The tax code incentivizes knocking houses down. The property transfer tax is lower on bare land than it is on land with improvements. So if you're going to sell your house you may get a more eager buyer if you knock it down first.