5 ms·

At this point, given how much Mars had been roved, why hasn’t some fossil record been discovered yet? At the very least, I would expect something akin to chalk

by xattt 3y ago

At this point, given how much Mars had been roved, why hasn’t some fossil record been discovered yet? At the very least, I would expect something akin to chalk left behind by proto-diatoms that had calcium carbonate skeletons.

adastra22 3y ago
How would we know? It’s not like like we have a geologist over there with a rock hammer breaking open rocks to look for fossils.
- psunavy03 3y ago
  Yet.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    I think it’s actually pretty darn stupid that we aren’t running one way missions.
    - seoulmetro 3y ago
      Feels like a conspiracy when you run into these super simple, realistic use cases of generic but progressive ideas. Things kids can think up, that we can most certainly do that would put us insanely ahead but ... we just don't? Like, why do we visit the moon but not have people stay there at all? Why are there no structures there? Why do we ignore the Earth's mysteries a lot and go directly to Mars?
    - Razengan 3y ago
      I, and I bet other people bored on Earth with nothing to look forward to, would gladly sign up for a one-way trip to Mars.
    - andrewflnr 3y ago
      The people who would be valuable in that role, namely highly trained scientists, mostly aren't interested in what's effectively a suicide mission. They have better options and things they're tied down to on Earth.
gehwartzen 3y ago
I think there have been less than 100 drill holes by curiosity and perseverance the deepest being ~3” and none of those samples have returned to earth. Not sure how deep any potential fossil layers might be but that doesn’t sound like a lot.
vel0city 3y ago
There's been less than 150 miles of Mars roamed by mostly small rovers that often could barely do more than take pictures and do some basic soil chemical analysis. Do you expect to see obvious dinosaur remains with an RC car with a small shovel driving around in Kansas for 100 miles, especially if you don't even know what a dino even looks like?
nonethewiser 3y ago
> At this point, given how much Mars had been roved I mean maybe its a lot compared to 20 years ago but in absolute terms? It’s practically nothing, isnt it?
somenameforme 3y ago
Other posts answered, but only if you already know the answer. The rovers we've used on Mars have done an extremely superficial job of scouring the planet. The most recent rover Perseverance has, to my knowledge, the most capable drill with a max depth of 2.4 inches. [1] And the drill is used extremely sparingly because it tends to break quickly, as it did on Curiosity. And of course it can only drill, not excavate/cleave. The first humans on Mars will likely provide more information in a week than decades of probes and rovers have. [1] - https://attheu.utah.edu/facultystaff/qa-perseverance-rovers-journey-to-mars/ https://attheu.utah.edu/facultystaff/qa-perseverance-rovers-...
- kaashif 3y ago
  I am imagining an astronaut digging with a shovel and 2.5 inches below the surface are just dinosaur skeletons and stuff. Or something even more fantastical.
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    Exactly. There's absolutely no reason to think that advanced life did not exist on Mars except for the lack of evidence. That sounds funny, but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, especially in a case like this where the planet has been probably sterilized on a time frame of potentially billions of years. The Great Pyramid of Giza is a massive and extremely hardy structure that will outlast all modern buildings. Yet it's substantially deteriorating after less than 5,000 years, and it will eventually just completely disintegrate, absent the already ongoing preservation/restoration efforts. It might take 20,000 years, maybe a million. A quick search on the internet suggests nobody really knows, other than that it will happen. And now we're talking about time frames of billions of years. So what would a sterilized, perpetually radiated, atmosphere free Earth over billions of years look like, paired with never-ending massive dust storms (as on Mars)? Well, probably not especially unlike Mars does today. But oh what treasures would await you far below the surface! I don't necessarily think anything does await us, but who knows? It's a tantalizing possibility that we won't be able to dismiss until we have humans on Mars. It's vaguely analogous to the early observations of 'canals' on Mars [1] whose explanation ranged from running water to active geoengineering from another advanced species on the planet. Their exact meaning was debated all the way into the mid 20th century, until we finally were able to get probes that could take 'high res' photos of the surface that showed they were definitely just optical illusions. A disappointing discovery, but nonetheless emphasizing that the importance of actually testing things instead of just relying on indirect instrumentation/data of this era or that. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals
Qem 3y ago
They don't carry petrographic microscopes, nor dig deep boreholes.
dyauspitr 3y ago
Drilling a couple of inches into the surface a handful of times isn’t going to find any fossils.

by xattt 3y ago

adastra22 3y ago

How would we know? It’s not like like we have a geologist over there with a rock hammer breaking open rocks to look for fossils.

psunavy03 3y ago
Yet.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  I think it’s actually pretty darn stupid that we aren’t running one way missions.
  - seoulmetro 3y ago
    Feels like a conspiracy when you run into these super simple, realistic use cases of generic but progressive ideas. Things kids can think up, that we can most certainly do that would put us insanely ahead but ... we just don't? Like, why do we visit the moon but not have people stay there at all? Why are there no structures there? Why do we ignore the Earth's mysteries a lot and go directly to Mars?
  - Razengan 3y ago
    I, and I bet other people bored on Earth with nothing to look forward to, would gladly sign up for a one-way trip to Mars.
  - andrewflnr 3y ago
    The people who would be valuable in that role, namely highly trained scientists, mostly aren't interested in what's effectively a suicide mission. They have better options and things they're tied down to on Earth.

gehwartzen 3y ago

I think there have been less than 100 drill holes by curiosity and perseverance the deepest being ~3” and none of those samples have returned to earth. Not sure how deep any potential fossil layers might be but that doesn’t sound like a lot.

vel0city 3y ago

There's been less than 150 miles of Mars roamed by mostly small rovers that often could barely do more than take pictures and do some basic soil chemical analysis. Do you expect to see obvious dinosaur remains with an RC car with a small shovel driving around in Kansas for 100 miles, especially if you don't even know what a dino even looks like?

nonethewiser 3y ago

> At this point, given how much Mars had been roved I mean maybe its a lot compared to 20 years ago but in absolute terms? It’s practically nothing, isnt it?

somenameforme 3y ago

Other posts answered, but only if you already know the answer. The rovers we've used on Mars have done an extremely superficial job of scouring the planet. The most recent rover Perseverance has, to my knowledge, the most capable drill with a max depth of 2.4 inches. [1] And the drill is used extremely sparingly because it tends to break quickly, as it did on Curiosity. And of course it can only drill, not excavate/cleave. The first humans on Mars will likely provide more information in a week than decades of probes and rovers have. [1] - https://attheu.utah.edu/facultystaff/qa-perseverance-rovers-journey-to-mars/ https://attheu.utah.edu/facultystaff/qa-perseverance-rovers-...

kaashif 3y ago
I am imagining an astronaut digging with a shovel and 2.5 inches below the surface are just dinosaur skeletons and stuff. Or something even more fantastical.
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Exactly. There's absolutely no reason to think that advanced life did not exist on Mars except for the lack of evidence. That sounds funny, but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, especially in a case like this where the planet has been probably sterilized on a time frame of potentially billions of years. The Great Pyramid of Giza is a massive and extremely hardy structure that will outlast all modern buildings. Yet it's substantially deteriorating after less than 5,000 years, and it will eventually just completely disintegrate, absent the already ongoing preservation/restoration efforts. It might take 20,000 years, maybe a million. A quick search on the internet suggests nobody really knows, other than that it will happen. And now we're talking about time frames of billions of years. So what would a sterilized, perpetually radiated, atmosphere free Earth over billions of years look like, paired with never-ending massive dust storms (as on Mars)? Well, probably not especially unlike Mars does today. But oh what treasures would await you far below the surface! I don't necessarily think anything does await us, but who knows? It's a tantalizing possibility that we won't be able to dismiss until we have humans on Mars. It's vaguely analogous to the early observations of 'canals' on Mars [1] whose explanation ranged from running water to active geoengineering from another advanced species on the planet. Their exact meaning was debated all the way into the mid 20th century, until we finally were able to get probes that could take 'high res' photos of the surface that showed they were definitely just optical illusions. A disappointing discovery, but nonetheless emphasizing that the importance of actually testing things instead of just relying on indirect instrumentation/data of this era or that. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_canals

Qem 3y ago

They don't carry petrographic microscopes, nor dig deep boreholes.

dyauspitr 3y ago

Drilling a couple of inches into the surface a handful of times isn’t going to find any fossils.