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I've seen this line about "cheap imported labor" all the time and frankly when it comes to software I don't understand it. The pay in this field is outrageously

I've seen this line about "cheap imported labor" all the time and frankly when it comes to software I don't understand it. The pay in this field is outrageously high. I don't think immigration policy should be concerned with protecting my salary. It should be concerned with increasing the country's power to the maximum extent possible.

analognoise 2y ago
That's because you mistakenly think you're not part of the labor class. You are and that realization will eventually hurt.
- sobellian 2y ago
  Is the hypothetical immigrant not also part of the labor class? What about their massively increased surplus through immigration? Restricted immigration doesn't help the "labor class" at all except only as defined through a narrow nationalist lens.
  - analognoise 2y ago
    Narrow nationalist lens? I'm an American laborer, of course I care more about what happens to American laborers than what happens to laborers from other places... they're my neighbors and countrymen?
    - sobellian 2y ago
      If someone immigrates here they will by definition become your fellow countryman (and possibly your neighbor too, depending on where they end up). I guess we just fundamentally disagree on who's worth consideration in this equation. I want to see people succeed no matter where they come from.
      - analognoise 2y ago
        We have a greater interest in preventing instability here by ensuring that those already here can find stable employment that provides a good wage and stability. I care about the success of my countrymen more than I do random people from wherever. I want people to succeed - in their home countries. That's fine, let them do that. I'm also a fan of legal immigration - you come here by the book, throw on the jersey, you're on the team. That's fine too. If you don't do that though, I'm not only not a fan but those people shouldn't be here.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        sobellian 2y ago
        Times are historically good here. To the extent immigration promotes instability it is not through economic malaise. If you're a fan of legal immigration, that's great - then certainly you agree that we ought to increase it rather than restrict it.

analognoise 2y ago

That's because you mistakenly think you're not part of the labor class. You are and that realization will eventually hurt.

sobellian 2y ago
Is the hypothetical immigrant not also part of the labor class? What about their massively increased surplus through immigration? Restricted immigration doesn't help the "labor class" at all except only as defined through a narrow nationalist lens.
- analognoise 2y ago
  Narrow nationalist lens? I'm an American laborer, of course I care more about what happens to American laborers than what happens to laborers from other places... they're my neighbors and countrymen?
  - sobellian 2y ago
    If someone immigrates here they will by definition become your fellow countryman (and possibly your neighbor too, depending on where they end up). I guess we just fundamentally disagree on who's worth consideration in this equation. I want to see people succeed no matter where they come from.
    - analognoise 2y ago
      We have a greater interest in preventing instability here by ensuring that those already here can find stable employment that provides a good wage and stability. I care about the success of my countrymen more than I do random people from wherever. I want people to succeed - in their home countries. That's fine, let them do that. I'm also a fan of legal immigration - you come here by the book, throw on the jersey, you're on the team. That's fine too. If you don't do that though, I'm not only not a fan but those people shouldn't be here.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - sobellian 2y ago
        Times are historically good here. To the extent immigration promotes instability it is not through economic malaise. If you're a fan of legal immigration, that's great - then certainly you agree that we ought to increase it rather than restrict it.