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Generative AI hasn't been around long enough and even now is still prohibitively expensive (for training/research). It is highly suspect that any shortage of A

Generative AI hasn't been around long enough and even now is still prohibitively expensive (for training/research). It is highly suspect that any shortage of AI workers could be filled by importing them. I find it much more likely that Google is merely whining. They're providing an excuse in the form of "not enough AI workers" for getting more cheap imported labor rather than simply hiring and training more expensive, local talent.

paxys 2y ago
The field didn't just show up out of the blue. People around the world have been researching it for decades. A lot of them now want to come work in the US because this is where the money and opportunity is. Take a look at the current AI landscape in the US. Almost everyone at the top of the field is a first generation immigrant, who managed to make it in while the process was still easy. It's wild that people see the clear benefits of their work to the economy and to US supremacy and then turn around and say that we need to stop importing talent because it takes away domestic jobs.
- peteradio 2y ago
  Also "Replacement Theory" isn't real.
- xhkkffbf 2y ago
  Where do you get the data to make the claim about the first generation immigrants. People like Sam Altman were born in Chicago. A great deal of AI research began in the US in the 1970s. What have the US colleges been doing since then?
  - paxys 2y ago
    Sam Altman does not have an AI background. OpenAI exists because of Ilya Sutskever. Anthropic's founders (Dario Amodei, Daniela Amodei) are immigrants, as is Clément Delangue (HuggingFace), Aidan Gomez (Cohere) and upwards of 70% of new AI startups in the country. And Jensen Huang, Andrew Ng, Andrej Karpathy, Fei-Fei Li, Yann LeCun, Ruslan Salakhutdinov, Shane Legg and pretty much the entire list of who's who in AI today. Demis Hassabis and a good chunk of his DeepMind team is British. Elon Musk himself would likely not have been able to clear the immigration process had he shown up to the country today. Despite what people here like to believe, the USA doesn't have a monopoly on talent. It has always relied on immigration to maintain supremacy. As for the "what have US colleges been doing" question – take a look at the nationalities of research departments at any major university in the country. The smartest people come here from all over the world to study, and are now promptly sent home with all the knowledge they gained because we don't let them put that knowledge to work here.
- tharmas 2y ago
  Why doesn't Google fund or open a school that trains talent? Why is it always "please let in more foreigners who are already trained"? Corps like Google with their attitude are just contributing to brain drain and helping to make those other countries poorer as a result. Oh right, brain drain is a foreign policy strategy to keep other countries down and America strong. Right, shutting up now.
xhkkffbf 2y ago
Didn't they just layoff a number of people? Surely there are some good, local talent that were once good enough for Google. Why ask to import more when you're laying off people?
- miah_ 2y ago
  I'm certain they are going this way because: People on Visa's are less likely to protest or join labor unions.
sobellian 2y ago
I've seen this line about "cheap imported labor" all the time and frankly when it comes to software I don't understand it. The pay in this field is outrageously high. I don't think immigration policy should be concerned with protecting my salary. It should be concerned with increasing the country's power to the maximum extent possible.
- analognoise 2y ago
  That's because you mistakenly think you're not part of the labor class. You are and that realization will eventually hurt.
  - sobellian 2y ago
    Is the hypothetical immigrant not also part of the labor class? What about their massively increased surplus through immigration? Restricted immigration doesn't help the "labor class" at all except only as defined through a narrow nationalist lens.
    - analognoise 2y ago
      Narrow nationalist lens? I'm an American laborer, of course I care more about what happens to American laborers than what happens to laborers from other places... they're my neighbors and countrymen?
      - sobellian 2y ago
        If someone immigrates here they will by definition become your fellow countryman (and possibly your neighbor too, depending on where they end up). I guess we just fundamentally disagree on who's worth consideration in this equation. I want to see people succeed no matter where they come from.
        analognoise 2y ago
        We have a greater interest in preventing instability here by ensuring that those already here can find stable employment that provides a good wage and stability. I care about the success of my countrymen more than I do random people from wherever. I want people to succeed - in their home countries. That's fine, let them do that. I'm also a fan of legal immigration - you come here by the book, throw on the jersey, you're on the team. That's fine too. If you don't do that though, I'm not only not a fan but those people shouldn't be here.

paxys 2y ago

The field didn't just show up out of the blue. People around the world have been researching it for decades. A lot of them now want to come work in the US because this is where the money and opportunity is. Take a look at the current AI landscape in the US. Almost everyone at the top of the field is a first generation immigrant, who managed to make it in while the process was still easy. It's wild that people see the clear benefits of their work to the economy and to US supremacy and then turn around and say that we need to stop importing talent because it takes away domestic jobs.

peteradio 2y ago
Also "Replacement Theory" isn't real.
xhkkffbf 2y ago
Where do you get the data to make the claim about the first generation immigrants. People like Sam Altman were born in Chicago. A great deal of AI research began in the US in the 1970s. What have the US colleges been doing since then?
- paxys 2y ago
  Sam Altman does not have an AI background. OpenAI exists because of Ilya Sutskever. Anthropic's founders (Dario Amodei, Daniela Amodei) are immigrants, as is Clément Delangue (HuggingFace), Aidan Gomez (Cohere) and upwards of 70% of new AI startups in the country. And Jensen Huang, Andrew Ng, Andrej Karpathy, Fei-Fei Li, Yann LeCun, Ruslan Salakhutdinov, Shane Legg and pretty much the entire list of who's who in AI today. Demis Hassabis and a good chunk of his DeepMind team is British. Elon Musk himself would likely not have been able to clear the immigration process had he shown up to the country today. Despite what people here like to believe, the USA doesn't have a monopoly on talent. It has always relied on immigration to maintain supremacy. As for the "what have US colleges been doing" question – take a look at the nationalities of research departments at any major university in the country. The smartest people come here from all over the world to study, and are now promptly sent home with all the knowledge they gained because we don't let them put that knowledge to work here.
tharmas 2y ago
Why doesn't Google fund or open a school that trains talent? Why is it always "please let in more foreigners who are already trained"? Corps like Google with their attitude are just contributing to brain drain and helping to make those other countries poorer as a result. Oh right, brain drain is a foreign policy strategy to keep other countries down and America strong. Right, shutting up now.

xhkkffbf 2y ago

Didn't they just layoff a number of people? Surely there are some good, local talent that were once good enough for Google. Why ask to import more when you're laying off people?

miah_ 2y ago
I'm certain they are going this way because: People on Visa's are less likely to protest or join labor unions.

sobellian 2y ago

I've seen this line about "cheap imported labor" all the time and frankly when it comes to software I don't understand it. The pay in this field is outrageously high. I don't think immigration policy should be concerned with protecting my salary. It should be concerned with increasing the country's power to the maximum extent possible.

analognoise 2y ago
That's because you mistakenly think you're not part of the labor class. You are and that realization will eventually hurt.
- sobellian 2y ago
  Is the hypothetical immigrant not also part of the labor class? What about their massively increased surplus through immigration? Restricted immigration doesn't help the "labor class" at all except only as defined through a narrow nationalist lens.
  - analognoise 2y ago
    Narrow nationalist lens? I'm an American laborer, of course I care more about what happens to American laborers than what happens to laborers from other places... they're my neighbors and countrymen?
    - sobellian 2y ago
      If someone immigrates here they will by definition become your fellow countryman (and possibly your neighbor too, depending on where they end up). I guess we just fundamentally disagree on who's worth consideration in this equation. I want to see people succeed no matter where they come from.
      - analognoise 2y ago
        We have a greater interest in preventing instability here by ensuring that those already here can find stable employment that provides a good wage and stability. I care about the success of my countrymen more than I do random people from wherever. I want people to succeed - in their home countries. That's fine, let them do that. I'm also a fan of legal immigration - you come here by the book, throw on the jersey, you're on the team. That's fine too. If you don't do that though, I'm not only not a fan but those people shouldn't be here.