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Well, there are some interesting discussions here (sometimes). I don't believe in echo chambers but about talking with people about ideas. I don't advocate for

Well, there are some interesting discussions here (sometimes). I don't believe in echo chambers but about talking with people about ideas. I don't advocate for a complete shunning of technology, but rather a cautious approach towards it, somewhat like the Amish but with Christianity replaced with a reverence for nature. We will never stop using basic tools and fire but there has got to be a better optimum somewhere that uses less than all the wasteful stuff we're doing now.

lukan 3y ago
"We will never stop using basic tools and fire but there has got to be a better optimum somewhere that uses less than all the wasteful stuff we're doing now." Yeah, better technology.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  Personally, I love birds and animals and natural ecosystems, which is why I can never love technology: the two are at odds and technology has been more destructive to them than anything else.
  - lukan 3y ago
    "Personally, I love birds and animals and natural ecosystems" Me too, but I also love technology and see no fundamental problem between the two. So no, I do not love pesticides or the toxic waste of conventional mining. But I would love a smart robot working the fields with no need for toxic chemicals. And mining can also be done in a non toxic way. It is just more expensive with current tech.
    - vouaobrasil 3y ago
      So far, there is no evidence that mining could ever be done in a sustainable way, nor have we any evidence that advanced technology could be sustainable. Since the industrial revolution, it has not been and we have made no significant steps to change it.
10u152 3y ago
Interesting outlook. I don't say you're 100% wrong, but getting enough people to make a difference to support you might be difficult. I think 99% of people never stop to question whether they should do anything, just rush headlong into the new consumable/widget.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  Yes, but I love wild animals. When I hear about birds and insects and spiders going extinct, I feel a terrible sadness and for that reason at least I am trying to figure out a better path and convince people of it. It might never work given the momentum of 8 billion, but most people are equally convinced they can never win the lottery and yet someone always does. I care about animals as much as I care about humans which is why I do not support technological growth, which just exports suffering into the animal world for our comfort.

lukan 3y ago

"We will never stop using basic tools and fire but there has got to be a better optimum somewhere that uses less than all the wasteful stuff we're doing now." Yeah, better technology.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
Personally, I love birds and animals and natural ecosystems, which is why I can never love technology: the two are at odds and technology has been more destructive to them than anything else.
- lukan 3y ago
  "Personally, I love birds and animals and natural ecosystems" Me too, but I also love technology and see no fundamental problem between the two. So no, I do not love pesticides or the toxic waste of conventional mining. But I would love a smart robot working the fields with no need for toxic chemicals. And mining can also be done in a non toxic way. It is just more expensive with current tech.
  - vouaobrasil 3y ago
    So far, there is no evidence that mining could ever be done in a sustainable way, nor have we any evidence that advanced technology could be sustainable. Since the industrial revolution, it has not been and we have made no significant steps to change it.

10u152 3y ago

Interesting outlook. I don't say you're 100% wrong, but getting enough people to make a difference to support you might be difficult. I think 99% of people never stop to question whether they should do anything, just rush headlong into the new consumable/widget.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
Yes, but I love wild animals. When I hear about birds and insects and spiders going extinct, I feel a terrible sadness and for that reason at least I am trying to figure out a better path and convince people of it. It might never work given the momentum of 8 billion, but most people are equally convinced they can never win the lottery and yet someone always does. I care about animals as much as I care about humans which is why I do not support technological growth, which just exports suffering into the animal world for our comfort.