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> I find it rather incredible. They end it by announcing that they should all be reinstated because they "did nothing wrong". They repeatedly talk as if they ex

by D13Fd 2y ago

> I find it rather incredible. They end it by announcing that they should all be reinstated because they "did nothing wrong". They repeatedly talk as if they expected just to have their "concerns heard", to get a warning, etc. Yeah. This is true "privilege" speaking -- they don't seem to realize how fortunate they were to be in their positions in the first place. Companies employ you because it's a good deal for them. If you're lucky, you find a place where it is a good deal for you too. Protesting and disrupting work changes that calculus for the company. It's no longer a good deal for them, and the unsurprising result is that they don't want to employ such people or hire them back.

krainboltgreene 2y ago
> This is true "privilege" speaking -- they don't seem to realize how fortunate they were to be in their positions in the first place. This is an extreme assumption on your part. > Companies employ you because it's a good deal for them. If you're lucky, you find a place where it is a good deal for you too. Protesting and disrupting work changes that calculus for the company. It's no longer a good deal for them, and the unsurprising result is that they won't want to hire such people back. Everytime workers do something collectively there's a dozen people in these threads saying the same thing, as if it's some sort of revelation. Sometimes people do things regardless of what's "expected" to be done to them, hoping for reason and empathy to prevail. That's not a sin and being snide about it isn't helpful.
- stickfigure 2y ago
  How much reason and empathy were the protesters offering to the people whose offices they occupied?
  - krainboltgreene 2y ago
    An extremely reasonable amount, by all counts, what a strange question.
- D13Fd 2y ago
  > This is an extreme assumption on your part. It's not. As I said, that's what I take from a video where a string of people had some of the best paying jobs available to any kind of worker, and at one of the most significant companies in the world right now, but don't seem to appreciate how fortunate they were to be in that situation or that they are replaceable. > hoping for reason and empathy to prevail "Reason" is what will get them in trouble here. A reasonable company is unlikely to keep or re-hire disruptive employees when it has other options, and boy does it have other options right now in this tech labor market. > being snide about it isn't helpful. I'm not being snide. They have every right to stand up for what they believe in, and there is something noble in that regardless of whether you agree with their view. I'm just remarking on how these individuals don't seem to realize what they had and what they've likely lost.
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - asadotzler 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - krainboltgreene 2y ago
    > I'm just remarking on how these individuals don't seem to realize what they had and what they've likely lost. Why do you keep doing this?
    - nailer 2y ago
      The person you are responding to has provide supporting arguments in their comment. If you have a response to those arguments, make it.
      - krainboltgreene 2y ago
        Thanks forum moderator, I appreciate you guiding us to the right way to make a discussion. Your input in this thread is invaluable.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  > Sometimes people do things regardless of what's "expected" to be done to them, hoping for reason and empathy to prevail. That's not a sin and being snide about it isn't helpful. Of course its not a sin, I think the point here is that people need to be really clear of the risks before taking such an aggressive moral stance. Depending on empathy and reason to prevail while protesting on personal opinion is a crap shoot, chances are the people on the other side could have different moral views or different goals to reason about. That's absolutely not to say that people shouldn't protest, only that purposely protesting in a disruptive way should be expected to have a bad outcome and push back from the other side. When the other side is on the winning side of the power imbalance that likely means you lose. If the goal is to draw a line in the sand that can still be a win, but if the goal is to make a show out of it with no consequences, well that probably won't work out.
  - krainboltgreene 2y ago
    > I think the point here is that people need to be really clear of the risks before taking such an aggressive moral stance Every thread like this, from now to the first time I visited HN so long ago, is filled with a hundred of the same comment that gets some weird satisfaction off presuming that people haven't thought out their actions. It's not unique, it's not interesting, it's not helpful, and frankly it's kind of insulting.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      Its a reasonable assumption that the person in question here didn't think it through if they're filing complaints over the firing. If you disagree with the company you work for and choose to protest disruptively at the office, and know that could lead to being fired, why file a complaint when that happens? And when filing the complaint, is the goal really to get your job back? At least for me, I can't speak for others here, its a combination of either not thinking it through or purposely making a spectacle out of themselves just to make a spectacle. For better or worse, I don't have much patience for people making a loud show of themselves and appearing to act irrationally (ex: protesting the company you work for, acknowledging you may get fired, getting fired, then filing a complaint presumably to get your job back?).
ParetoOptimal 2y ago
> Companies employ you because it's a good deal for them. If you're lucky, you find a place where it is a good deal for you too. Toe the line for being underpaid, having bad healthcare, and working for overpaid execs... be grateful you get the chance!
DangitBobby 2y ago
Or it can be seen as an extension of the protest, continuing to lash out at Google for making sociopathic decisions (from their perspective) and using all the tools at their disposal to continue to make being evil less attractive.

by D13Fd 2y ago

krainboltgreene 2y ago

> This is true "privilege" speaking -- they don't seem to realize how fortunate they were to be in their positions in the first place. This is an extreme assumption on your part. > Companies employ you because it's a good deal for them. If you're lucky, you find a place where it is a good deal for you too. Protesting and disrupting work changes that calculus for the company. It's no longer a good deal for them, and the unsurprising result is that they won't want to hire such people back. Everytime workers do something collectively there's a dozen people in these threads saying the same thing, as if it's some sort of revelation. Sometimes people do things regardless of what's "expected" to be done to them, hoping for reason and empathy to prevail. That's not a sin and being snide about it isn't helpful.

stickfigure 2y ago
How much reason and empathy were the protesters offering to the people whose offices they occupied?
- krainboltgreene 2y ago
  An extremely reasonable amount, by all counts, what a strange question.
D13Fd 2y ago
> This is an extreme assumption on your part. It's not. As I said, that's what I take from a video where a string of people had some of the best paying jobs available to any kind of worker, and at one of the most significant companies in the world right now, but don't seem to appreciate how fortunate they were to be in that situation or that they are replaceable. > hoping for reason and empathy to prevail "Reason" is what will get them in trouble here. A reasonable company is unlikely to keep or re-hire disruptive employees when it has other options, and boy does it have other options right now in this tech labor market. > being snide about it isn't helpful. I'm not being snide. They have every right to stand up for what they believe in, and there is something noble in that regardless of whether you agree with their view. I'm just remarking on how these individuals don't seem to realize what they had and what they've likely lost.
- refulgentis 2y ago
  [flagged]
- asadotzler 2y ago
  [flagged]
- krainboltgreene 2y ago
  > I'm just remarking on how these individuals don't seem to realize what they had and what they've likely lost. Why do you keep doing this?
  - nailer 2y ago
    The person you are responding to has provide supporting arguments in their comment. If you have a response to those arguments, make it.
    - krainboltgreene 2y ago
      Thanks forum moderator, I appreciate you guiding us to the right way to make a discussion. Your input in this thread is invaluable.
_heimdall 2y ago
> Sometimes people do things regardless of what's "expected" to be done to them, hoping for reason and empathy to prevail. That's not a sin and being snide about it isn't helpful. Of course its not a sin, I think the point here is that people need to be really clear of the risks before taking such an aggressive moral stance. Depending on empathy and reason to prevail while protesting on personal opinion is a crap shoot, chances are the people on the other side could have different moral views or different goals to reason about. That's absolutely not to say that people shouldn't protest, only that purposely protesting in a disruptive way should be expected to have a bad outcome and push back from the other side. When the other side is on the winning side of the power imbalance that likely means you lose. If the goal is to draw a line in the sand that can still be a win, but if the goal is to make a show out of it with no consequences, well that probably won't work out.
- krainboltgreene 2y ago
  > I think the point here is that people need to be really clear of the risks before taking such an aggressive moral stance Every thread like this, from now to the first time I visited HN so long ago, is filled with a hundred of the same comment that gets some weird satisfaction off presuming that people haven't thought out their actions. It's not unique, it's not interesting, it's not helpful, and frankly it's kind of insulting.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Its a reasonable assumption that the person in question here didn't think it through if they're filing complaints over the firing. If you disagree with the company you work for and choose to protest disruptively at the office, and know that could lead to being fired, why file a complaint when that happens? And when filing the complaint, is the goal really to get your job back? At least for me, I can't speak for others here, its a combination of either not thinking it through or purposely making a spectacle out of themselves just to make a spectacle. For better or worse, I don't have much patience for people making a loud show of themselves and appearing to act irrationally (ex: protesting the company you work for, acknowledging you may get fired, getting fired, then filing a complaint presumably to get your job back?).

ParetoOptimal 2y ago

> Companies employ you because it's a good deal for them. If you're lucky, you find a place where it is a good deal for you too. Toe the line for being underpaid, having bad healthcare, and working for overpaid execs... be grateful you get the chance!

DangitBobby 2y ago

Or it can be seen as an extension of the protest, continuing to lash out at Google for making sociopathic decisions (from their perspective) and using all the tools at their disposal to continue to make being evil less attractive.