5 ms·

It is a good thing for democratically accountable governments to do good things that the people want!

umvi 2y ago
Yes, it's good for the government to not be tyrannical, but I'd argue that when the majority of people increasingly and collectively want things that are net negatives for society like recreational drug use, it's a red flag that society is in decline.
- jMyles 2y ago
  You seem to be conflating a distaste for demonstratively failed policy, like as prohibition, with an appetite for what you are calling "recreational drug use". Do you acknowledge the failure of prohibition?
- MeImCounting 2y ago
  I think recreational drug use is demonstrably good for society and part of all succesful civilizations. Take caffeine, sugar, alcohol and tobacco as the primary examples. All potent drugs and all taken habitually and en masse by all the most successful societies in the world.
  - minitech 2y ago
    All the most successful societies have tobacco users, therefore tobacco is good for society. Logic checks out.
    - MeImCounting 2y ago
      More like all the most successful societies value personal freedoms. Personal freedoms are clearly good for society and a big one of those is recreational drug use of which tobacco use is quite common. Having a government which restricts personal freedoms too much for the sake of "societal good" may work in the short term or for specific issues but is clearly a negative in the long and broad terms. See the "west" of today for evidence of personal freedom combined with not-overly-restrictive-legislation being the most successful method of handling these things.
chucksta 2y ago
Tell that to all the people pissed off at Roe v Wade
- krapp 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - grecy 2y ago
    > an unelected unaccountable panel of judges Don't forget seriously corrupt who regularly accept bribes.
  - tootie 2y ago
    A panel of judges appointed and confirmed by elected officials. An electoral plurality did want it repealed. And based on current polls, there is not a majority who think it's important enough to change it back. Even if there's an opinion poll saying most people want abortion rights, that's effectively moot if they don't vote that way.
    - jonathanlb 2y ago
      > based on current polls Citation needed. Current polls indicate that "[t]wo-thirds of the public, including majorities of Democrats (86%) and independents (67%), support a law guaranteeing a federal right to abortion." Source: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/poll-finding/kff-health-tracking-poll-march-2024-abortion-in-the-2024-election-and-beyond/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/poll-finding/kff-he... > Even if there's an opinion poll [...] that's effectively moot if they don't vote that way. Weirdly, your own argument is rendered moot with that assertion. But I agree, it's important for people to vote.
      - tootie 2y ago
        By current polls, I mean the ones showing Trump even or slightly ahead of Biden despite him being directly responsible for Dobbs. If 2/3 of the public wanted abortion rights, Biden would have 2/3 of the popular vote, but he won't get anywhere near that. Hence, most people don't want Roe reinstated. QED.
celdon25 2y ago
The people want to be undisturbed and untaxed by rampant mental illness too, but the average person won't acknowledge that recreational marijuana use (with today's potency levels) contributes to declining mental health. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/ https://treatmentmagazine.com/cannabis-2020-this-isnt-your-dads-weed/ https://treatmentmagazine.com/cannabis-2020-this-isnt-your-d...
IncreasePosts 2y ago
That logic doesn't really hold. I'll speak generally and not about this specific administration: If the <current government> was doing good things that the people wanted during the entire term, then they would not need to resort to moves like this alleged one when the vote is coming up. It's only if they're not doing good things that the people want that they would dangle something shiny to the electorate.

umvi 2y ago

Yes, it's good for the government to not be tyrannical, but I'd argue that when the majority of people increasingly and collectively want things that are net negatives for society like recreational drug use, it's a red flag that society is in decline.

jMyles 2y ago
You seem to be conflating a distaste for demonstratively failed policy, like as prohibition, with an appetite for what you are calling "recreational drug use". Do you acknowledge the failure of prohibition?
MeImCounting 2y ago
I think recreational drug use is demonstrably good for society and part of all succesful civilizations. Take caffeine, sugar, alcohol and tobacco as the primary examples. All potent drugs and all taken habitually and en masse by all the most successful societies in the world.
- minitech 2y ago
  All the most successful societies have tobacco users, therefore tobacco is good for society. Logic checks out.
  - MeImCounting 2y ago
    More like all the most successful societies value personal freedoms. Personal freedoms are clearly good for society and a big one of those is recreational drug use of which tobacco use is quite common. Having a government which restricts personal freedoms too much for the sake of "societal good" may work in the short term or for specific issues but is clearly a negative in the long and broad terms. See the "west" of today for evidence of personal freedom combined with not-overly-restrictive-legislation being the most successful method of handling these things.

chucksta 2y ago

Tell that to all the people pissed off at Roe v Wade

krapp 2y ago
[flagged]
- grecy 2y ago
  > an unelected unaccountable panel of judges Don't forget seriously corrupt who regularly accept bribes.
- tootie 2y ago
  A panel of judges appointed and confirmed by elected officials. An electoral plurality did want it repealed. And based on current polls, there is not a majority who think it's important enough to change it back. Even if there's an opinion poll saying most people want abortion rights, that's effectively moot if they don't vote that way.
  - jonathanlb 2y ago
    > based on current polls Citation needed. Current polls indicate that "[t]wo-thirds of the public, including majorities of Democrats (86%) and independents (67%), support a law guaranteeing a federal right to abortion." Source: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/poll-finding/kff-health-tracking-poll-march-2024-abortion-in-the-2024-election-and-beyond/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/poll-finding/kff-he... > Even if there's an opinion poll [...] that's effectively moot if they don't vote that way. Weirdly, your own argument is rendered moot with that assertion. But I agree, it's important for people to vote.
    - tootie 2y ago
      By current polls, I mean the ones showing Trump even or slightly ahead of Biden despite him being directly responsible for Dobbs. If 2/3 of the public wanted abortion rights, Biden would have 2/3 of the popular vote, but he won't get anywhere near that. Hence, most people don't want Roe reinstated. QED.

celdon25 2y ago

The people want to be undisturbed and untaxed by rampant mental illness too, but the average person won't acknowledge that recreational marijuana use (with today's potency levels) contributes to declining mental health. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/ https://treatmentmagazine.com/cannabis-2020-this-isnt-your-dads-weed/ https://treatmentmagazine.com/cannabis-2020-this-isnt-your-d...

IncreasePosts 2y ago

That logic doesn't really hold. I'll speak generally and not about this specific administration: If the <current government> was doing good things that the people wanted during the entire term, then they would not need to resort to moves like this alleged one when the vote is coming up. It's only if they're not doing good things that the people want that they would dangle something shiny to the electorate.