6 ms·

38 Studios and Big Huge Games lay off entire staffs

47 points by cobrausn 14y ago

debacle 14y ago
Hopefully the silver lining to this is that governments will be less silly with taxpayer dollars in the future. But who am I kidding?
kevingadd 14y ago
It's worthwhile to pay attention to the story of 38 Studios; in many ways it parallels that of a typical startup, but has the less-common context of being in the gaming industry (which probably seems like the wild west to most people). A few key tidbits: Curt Schilling's inspiration to start 38 and work on Project Copernicus (the original title it was founded to develop) grew out of his passion for playing games like World of Warcraft alongside his active participation on game-focused forums like Fires of Heaven. Many people from that and other similar communities are observed moving into the industry when they demonstrate particular insight or skill through game design/balance discussions (aka 'theorycrafting') so it's not as unexpected as you might think for a random gamer to go from talking about a genre on forums to working on a game of his own. Curt is only unique there in that he had the cash on hand to get it rolling himself. 38 Studios started out working on Copernicus (under another name) for multiple years without much fuss in the press and (presumably) at a much smaller studio size than it has now. It wasn't until 2009 that it started making visible moves to expand and act more quickly. In '09 they acquired Big Huge Games (actual developers of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning) and had them rebrand their game in order to have an Amalur title to ship soon and presumably bring their resources to bear on Copernicus. In '10 they made their now-infamous deal with the state of Rhode Island to relocate the studio and expand to 450 staff in exchange for a loan. Curt publicly claimed to have invested a large chunk of his personal fortune (according to some sources as much as $30m - http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/05/18/curt-schillings-video-game-company-38-studios-defaulted-on-75-million-loan-from-rhode-island/ http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/05/18/curt-schillings-v... ) into the company alongside the loan from the state of Rhode Island and potentially other investors; more recent reports suggest that the amount he actually invested was closer to $4 million and was repaid out of the state of RI's loan (http://blogs.wpri.com/2012/05/14/38-studios-finances-under-scrutiny-ri-taxpayers-75m-at-risk/ http://blogs.wpri.com/2012/05/14/38-studios-finances-under-s...).
- astrodust 14y ago
  With that much capital and staffing it sounds like the "Go big or go home" approach versus a more sustainable slow burn. Maybe the investors wanted either a blockbuster hit or an immediate tax write-off.
far33d 14y ago
"The Company is experiencing an economic downturn." Um. No. You mismanaged your finances and chose not to give your employees any warning that they will be without pay or health care. A word to all you startup founders out there - don't toy with your employees' lives. If you are running out of money, let them know so they can plan.
- fsckin 14y ago
  Is there anything that says they were not warned in advance?
  - Negitivefrags 14y ago
    Yes there is. Check out the quote in this Forbes article. http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/24/38-studios-lays-off-staff-shuts-down-big-huge-games-is-this-the-end/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/24/38-studios-l...
    - duaneb 14y ago
      I feel like I've been hearing about 38 Studio's slow descent for a while now... However, there's a huge gap between "hearing about financial woes" and "Not telling child-expecting couple about lack of health insurance". There's really no excuse for that.
  - far33d 14y ago
    Not in this article, but that's what I've heard from everyone who works there or knows people who work there.
  - Alex3917 14y ago
    None of them knew until a few hours ago, and their email server got completely shut off a few minutes after the initial email went out. The former employees are posting about it all over facebook.
fsckin 14y ago
Recruiters will be hunting the folks who got laid off, I hope they find work quickly. I thought it was interesting that they were given such a large loan by the government. But they had big ideas, and behind it was Curt Schilling, Todd McFarlane, R. A. Salvatore and lots of incredibly talented folks. I applied when they had a job in my area of expertise, and I had another (better) gig by the time they got back to me with my application. Not surprisingly, two months later they contacted me about the same gig, independent from my application. There's got to be some lesson in there somewhere, specifically about how to judge a startup that takes a month to get back about a job inquiry.
lambda 14y ago
Since when do states give massive loans to game development companies without a single successful title under their belt? This is the kind of thing that would make a dubious investment, let alone a state-backed loan.
- getsat 14y ago
  Rhode Island's last governor, Donald Carceri, was a lame duck when he set up the loan. The current governor, Lincoln Chaffee, tried to stop the loan when he took office, but it was too late.
- kevingadd 14y ago
  Georgia has been negotiating sweetheart deals with various game studios (Hi-Rez and CCP to name two) that supposedly include some really nice benefits (like free rent/office space) in exchange for moving some or all of a studio's operations to the state, but I don't know if it includes loans.
  - cpeterso 14y ago
    Did CCP actually an office in Georgia or was did they just inherit offices from their acquisition of White Wolf? I believe CCP had software engineers in Atlanta working on the White Wolf MMO.
- georgemcbay 14y ago
  "Since when do states give massive loans to game development companies without a single successful title under their belt?" Since game development companies started being run by sports heroes who are virtually revered in the region (as Curt Shilling is in New England).
binxbolling 14y ago
Should've stayed in Maynard, Curt.
jvrossb 14y ago
First-time game developers often want to make an MMO. Anecdotally, this happens all the time on a small scale even amongst hobbyist developers (i.e. college students working on a part-time project). First game? I'm going to make an MMO! I'm not exactly sure why, but it may have something to do with both their popularity and the ease of imagining a cool, novel MMO concept. It never goes well. College kids never finish their part-time project, Curt Schilling blows through millions of taxpayer dollars. Many big-budget MMOs are in the cancelled game graveyard, and many dragged down their studios with them: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/dead/sCol/estimatedRelease/sOrder/asc http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/dead/sCol/estimatedR... I feel bad for the talented folks at Big Huge Games who boarded a sinking ship. Here's hoping that all the staff at 38 Studios and BHG find news jobs ASAP.
- phaedrus 14y ago
  Re: to it never goes well... I'm one of your aforementioned "College kids [with a] part-time project" to do an MMO, now graduated and working a day-job while trying to finish a game any game. Let me give you some insight into why we decided and why we thought we could do an MMO. First of all, a subscription model is very attractive, because it's clear how the venture is supposed to make money. We thought, or at least I thought, that we could make an MMO more simply by making a game that's just the "multiplayer online part" plus a smaller "rest of the game". I got started immediately working on the network sync code. I got as far as moving boxes that did in fact sync their positions on multiple computers. But going from that to a real game is about as big a gulf as going from nailing boards to building a house. It turns out, code to network sync a game is not going to go anywhere without a game to sync. So now I'm working on a simpler single player game, built with the scripting language bindings that was one of the best pieces left over from the earlier endeavor. I think even experienced programmers from other fields cannot understand the soul-crushing amount of work it is to get even simple things working in a 3D game when you're doing it all by your self. Yesterday I got a green line to move on a black screen, and I was happy. (The game engine, which can do more than that, had been not working for 6 months following a rewrite, so I was happy to see anything. And yes I know about the Joel Spolsky article about the folly of complete rewrites. I'll see your Joel Spolsky and raise you one Richard Brooks: "plan to throw one away. You will anyway.")
robryan 14y ago
Rise of nations has long been one of my favorite games, was just surprised when looking it up that big huge games hadn't gone to far (at least in terms of popular and successful releases) since that.

47 points by cobrausn 14y ago

Hopefully the silver lining to this is that governments will be less silly with taxpayer dollars in the future. But who am I kidding?

kevingadd 14y ago

It's worthwhile to pay attention to the story of 38 Studios; in many ways it parallels that of a typical startup, but has the less-common context of being in the gaming industry (which probably seems like the wild west to most people). A few key tidbits: Curt Schilling's inspiration to start 38 and work on Project Copernicus (the original title it was founded to develop) grew out of his passion for playing games like World of Warcraft alongside his active participation on game-focused forums like Fires of Heaven. Many people from that and other similar communities are observed moving into the industry when they demonstrate particular insight or skill through game design/balance discussions (aka 'theorycrafting') so it's not as unexpected as you might think for a random gamer to go from talking about a genre on forums to working on a game of his own. Curt is only unique there in that he had the cash on hand to get it rolling himself. 38 Studios started out working on Copernicus (under another name) for multiple years without much fuss in the press and (presumably) at a much smaller studio size than it has now. It wasn't until 2009 that it started making visible moves to expand and act more quickly. In '09 they acquired Big Huge Games (actual developers of Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning) and had them rebrand their game in order to have an Amalur title to ship soon and presumably bring their resources to bear on Copernicus. In '10 they made their now-infamous deal with the state of Rhode Island to relocate the studio and expand to 450 staff in exchange for a loan. Curt publicly claimed to have invested a large chunk of his personal fortune (according to some sources as much as $30m - http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/05/18/curt-schillings-video-game-company-38-studios-defaulted-on-75-million-loan-from-rhode-island/ http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/05/18/curt-schillings-v... ) into the company alongside the loan from the state of Rhode Island and potentially other investors; more recent reports suggest that the amount he actually invested was closer to $4 million and was repaid out of the state of RI's loan (http://blogs.wpri.com/2012/05/14/38-studios-finances-under-scrutiny-ri-taxpayers-75m-at-risk/ http://blogs.wpri.com/2012/05/14/38-studios-finances-under-s...).

astrodust 14y ago
With that much capital and staffing it sounds like the "Go big or go home" approach versus a more sustainable slow burn. Maybe the investors wanted either a blockbuster hit or an immediate tax write-off.

far33d 14y ago

"The Company is experiencing an economic downturn." Um. No. You mismanaged your finances and chose not to give your employees any warning that they will be without pay or health care. A word to all you startup founders out there - don't toy with your employees' lives. If you are running out of money, let them know so they can plan.

fsckin 14y ago
Is there anything that says they were not warned in advance?
- Negitivefrags 14y ago
  Yes there is. Check out the quote in this Forbes article. http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/24/38-studios-lays-off-staff-shuts-down-big-huge-games-is-this-the-end/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/24/38-studios-l...
  - duaneb 14y ago
    I feel like I've been hearing about 38 Studio's slow descent for a while now... However, there's a huge gap between "hearing about financial woes" and "Not telling child-expecting couple about lack of health insurance". There's really no excuse for that.
- far33d 14y ago
  Not in this article, but that's what I've heard from everyone who works there or knows people who work there.
- Alex3917 14y ago
  None of them knew until a few hours ago, and their email server got completely shut off a few minutes after the initial email went out. The former employees are posting about it all over facebook.

fsckin 14y ago

Recruiters will be hunting the folks who got laid off, I hope they find work quickly. I thought it was interesting that they were given such a large loan by the government. But they had big ideas, and behind it was Curt Schilling, Todd McFarlane, R. A. Salvatore and lots of incredibly talented folks. I applied when they had a job in my area of expertise, and I had another (better) gig by the time they got back to me with my application. Not surprisingly, two months later they contacted me about the same gig, independent from my application. There's got to be some lesson in there somewhere, specifically about how to judge a startup that takes a month to get back about a job inquiry.

lambda 14y ago

Since when do states give massive loans to game development companies without a single successful title under their belt? This is the kind of thing that would make a dubious investment, let alone a state-backed loan.

getsat 14y ago
Rhode Island's last governor, Donald Carceri, was a lame duck when he set up the loan. The current governor, Lincoln Chaffee, tried to stop the loan when he took office, but it was too late.
kevingadd 14y ago
Georgia has been negotiating sweetheart deals with various game studios (Hi-Rez and CCP to name two) that supposedly include some really nice benefits (like free rent/office space) in exchange for moving some or all of a studio's operations to the state, but I don't know if it includes loans.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  Did CCP actually an office in Georgia or was did they just inherit offices from their acquisition of White Wolf? I believe CCP had software engineers in Atlanta working on the White Wolf MMO.
georgemcbay 14y ago
"Since when do states give massive loans to game development companies without a single successful title under their belt?" Since game development companies started being run by sports heroes who are virtually revered in the region (as Curt Shilling is in New England).

binxbolling 14y ago

Should've stayed in Maynard, Curt.

jvrossb 14y ago

First-time game developers often want to make an MMO. Anecdotally, this happens all the time on a small scale even amongst hobbyist developers (i.e. college students working on a part-time project). First game? I'm going to make an MMO! I'm not exactly sure why, but it may have something to do with both their popularity and the ease of imagining a cool, novel MMO concept. It never goes well. College kids never finish their part-time project, Curt Schilling blows through millions of taxpayer dollars. Many big-budget MMOs are in the cancelled game graveyard, and many dragged down their studios with them: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/dead/sCol/estimatedRelease/sOrder/asc http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/dead/sCol/estimatedR... I feel bad for the talented folks at Big Huge Games who boarded a sinking ship. Here's hoping that all the staff at 38 Studios and BHG find news jobs ASAP.

phaedrus 14y ago
Re: to it never goes well... I'm one of your aforementioned "College kids [with a] part-time project" to do an MMO, now graduated and working a day-job while trying to finish a game any game. Let me give you some insight into why we decided and why we thought we could do an MMO. First of all, a subscription model is very attractive, because it's clear how the venture is supposed to make money. We thought, or at least I thought, that we could make an MMO more simply by making a game that's just the "multiplayer online part" plus a smaller "rest of the game". I got started immediately working on the network sync code. I got as far as moving boxes that did in fact sync their positions on multiple computers. But going from that to a real game is about as big a gulf as going from nailing boards to building a house. It turns out, code to network sync a game is not going to go anywhere without a game to sync. So now I'm working on a simpler single player game, built with the scripting language bindings that was one of the best pieces left over from the earlier endeavor. I think even experienced programmers from other fields cannot understand the soul-crushing amount of work it is to get even simple things working in a 3D game when you're doing it all by your self. Yesterday I got a green line to move on a black screen, and I was happy. (The game engine, which can do more than that, had been not working for 6 months following a rewrite, so I was happy to see anything. And yes I know about the Joel Spolsky article about the folly of complete rewrites. I'll see your Joel Spolsky and raise you one Richard Brooks: "plan to throw one away. You will anyway.")

robryan 14y ago

Rise of nations has long been one of my favorite games, was just surprised when looking it up that big huge games hadn't gone to far (at least in terms of popular and successful releases) since that.