5 ms·

If you really want a chat tool to start a revolution, meet in person with people you trust and don't bring any electronic devices with you. And only talk to peo

If you really want a chat tool to start a revolution, meet in person with people you trust and don't bring any electronic devices with you. And only talk to people who you really trust. Forget phones.

wave_1 3y ago
haha the best reply on the Internet
serf 3y ago
"just know who to trust". a super power I wish I had.
- Retr0id 3y ago
  No amount of technology can solve this.
- dvt 3y ago
  A revolution is all about subterfuge, intelligence, and trust. If you don't hone those skills, you might not be suited for one. Conversely, technology is an attack vector.
  - candiodari 3y ago
    Not really, for example, the current one is about money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_e...
pavel_lishin 3y ago
Everything is trade-offs. Meeting in person is great, until you're in the middle of a protest and everyone has to scatter because the police are firing tear gas at your skull. At that point, you rather do need to either have had a plan, or you need some way to communicate that isn't face-to-face.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  Yes. My advice is a general one to be used as far as possible.
redandblack 3y ago
A antifa relative does not carry their phone with them when they meet, nor do they carry it in their person when attending a rally - they have a friend/lawyer name/number written in a paper with them, just in case some one has to be contacted. At rallies, masked, sun glasses, baseball hat and a couple of shirts
- dingnuts 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - bishbosh 3y ago
    Sometimes honest and brave things are illegal.
  - janice1999 3y ago
    It's not like the US recently saw protestors snatched off the streets in unmarked vans by unidentified forces [1]... or protestors designated terrorists by officials [2]... or widespread deployment of military surveillance on peaceful protestors... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/portland-protests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/portland-protests.html [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/28/copy-city-atlanta-protesters-lives-domestic-terrorist-label https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/28/copy-city-at...
    - candiodari 3y ago
      It's not like anyone minds that when it is actually serious: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68840881 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68840881 In fact there's protests happening all over that seek to PROTECT the people who do this. And it's not like this is the first time THIS WEEK this happened. Also they're still holding several European academics to get the terrorist who killed several hundred people attacking the Bataclan in Paris and Brussels airport freed. In fact they keep claiming they're about to execute the first of those academics.
eli 3y ago
Revolutionaries definitely had problems with surveillance and infiltration before electronics.
- vouaobrasil 3y ago
  Indeed, and they have more problems after. Especially since the next revolution will likely be one against capitalism itself.
- Animats 3y ago
  When four men sit down to discuss revolution, three are fools and the fourth is a police spy.
anigbrowl 3y ago
Not having any communications at all puts you at a massive disadvantage when opposing people who do. Absolutely no revolutions were ever accomplished by improvisational means.
- b112 3y ago
  Yet communicating in person is communicating. Anyhow, a combination of the two is likely best. It won't really help though, "back in the day" every movement had a few police informants in the mix. There's less of that now with electronic monitoring, and 24x7 tracking, but a totalitarian state likely has more of that mix. Heck a bunch of crooks tried to rob my house, and were caught not only due to having their phones on them, but ALSO due to sending SMS messages about houses they were examining "This house looks empty!", but also because they dropped a phone outside my house, when fleeing when the alarm went off... and the phone wasn't even locked! Just imagine in a police state. I think a lot of revolutions get stopped before conspirators even get to the "protect our comms" point.
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 3y ago
      Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40184481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40184481 was another recent bad case. Please don't that any more.
pjc50 3y ago
It was quite remarkable how Jan 6 proceeded entirely in the open with people posting selfies of themselves saying "off to overthrow the government today!", but because that kind of thing is entirely normalized from rightwing sources it wasn't important until those arrested eventually made it to court. Stochastic terror and the stochastic coup work great precisely because there are no clear unambiguous two-way communication trails between the instigator and the accomplices; just a lot of "wouldn't it be great if somebody did something". Fell apart afterwards because there was no further planning.

wave_1 3y ago

haha the best reply on the Internet

serf 3y ago

"just know who to trust". a super power I wish I had.

Retr0id 3y ago
No amount of technology can solve this.
dvt 3y ago
A revolution is all about subterfuge, intelligence, and trust. If you don't hone those skills, you might not be suited for one. Conversely, technology is an attack vector.
- candiodari 3y ago
  Not really, for example, the current one is about money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_e...

pavel_lishin 3y ago

Everything is trade-offs. Meeting in person is great, until you're in the middle of a protest and everyone has to scatter because the police are firing tear gas at your skull. At that point, you rather do need to either have had a plan, or you need some way to communicate that isn't face-to-face.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
Yes. My advice is a general one to be used as far as possible.

redandblack 3y ago

A antifa relative does not carry their phone with them when they meet, nor do they carry it in their person when attending a rally - they have a friend/lawyer name/number written in a paper with them, just in case some one has to be contacted. At rallies, masked, sun glasses, baseball hat and a couple of shirts

dingnuts 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bishbosh 3y ago
  Sometimes honest and brave things are illegal.
- janice1999 3y ago
  It's not like the US recently saw protestors snatched off the streets in unmarked vans by unidentified forces [1]... or protestors designated terrorists by officials [2]... or widespread deployment of military surveillance on peaceful protestors... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/portland-protests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/us/portland-protests.html [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/28/copy-city-atlanta-protesters-lives-domestic-terrorist-label https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/28/copy-city-at...
  - candiodari 3y ago
    It's not like anyone minds that when it is actually serious: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68840881 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68840881 In fact there's protests happening all over that seek to PROTECT the people who do this. And it's not like this is the first time THIS WEEK this happened. Also they're still holding several European academics to get the terrorist who killed several hundred people attacking the Bataclan in Paris and Brussels airport freed. In fact they keep claiming they're about to execute the first of those academics.

eli 3y ago

Revolutionaries definitely had problems with surveillance and infiltration before electronics.

vouaobrasil 3y ago
Indeed, and they have more problems after. Especially since the next revolution will likely be one against capitalism itself.
Animats 3y ago
When four men sit down to discuss revolution, three are fools and the fourth is a police spy.

anigbrowl 3y ago

Not having any communications at all puts you at a massive disadvantage when opposing people who do. Absolutely no revolutions were ever accomplished by improvisational means.

b112 3y ago
Yet communicating in person is communicating. Anyhow, a combination of the two is likely best. It won't really help though, "back in the day" every movement had a few police informants in the mix. There's less of that now with electronic monitoring, and 24x7 tracking, but a totalitarian state likely has more of that mix. Heck a bunch of crooks tried to rob my house, and were caught not only due to having their phones on them, but ALSO due to sending SMS messages about houses they were examining "This house looks empty!", but also because they dropped a phone outside my house, when fleeing when the alarm went off... and the phone wasn't even locked! Just imagine in a police state. I think a lot of revolutions get stopped before conspirators even get to the "protect our comms" point.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40184481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40184481 was another recent bad case. Please don't that any more.

pjc50 3y ago

It was quite remarkable how Jan 6 proceeded entirely in the open with people posting selfies of themselves saying "off to overthrow the government today!", but because that kind of thing is entirely normalized from rightwing sources it wasn't important until those arrested eventually made it to court. Stochastic terror and the stochastic coup work great precisely because there are no clear unambiguous two-way communication trails between the instigator and the accomplices; just a lot of "wouldn't it be great if somebody did something". Fell apart afterwards because there was no further planning.