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I’m fairly nonplussed at what has happened to “begging the question” - its usage now is an inversion of its original philosophical meaning as a form of fallacy.

I’m fairly nonplussed at what has happened to “begging the question” - its usage now is an inversion of its original philosophical meaning as a form of fallacy. It’s common usage is a way of saying “the question arises”.

lupire 3y ago
I sanction this comment.
margalabargala 3y ago
I take objection to the characterization of "begging the question" having a changed/incorrect meaning. I assert that the "original philosophical meaning" is the fad idiom, and the common usage is a true parsing of the words unrelated to the idiom. "This begs the question of why X Y Z" is just a shortening of "this [thing you said] begs [that] the question [be asked] of why X Y Z". I think the only reason there's any discussion about it at all is because the sorts of people who are likely to use the idiom of "begging the question" with regard to logic, are the sort of people who enjoy being pedantic about other people's language, and this presents an opportunity to do so. You could say I'm plussed about the whole thing. It brings up a whelming amount of emotion in me.
- gizajob 3y ago
  You might be correct, but it begs the question: where are your citations for that?
  - margalabargala 3y ago
    You would like a citation that people with an interest in rhetoric and logic tend to be pedantic and more likely to correct others if they see an opportunity to do so? I cite the comment section of https://news.ycombinator.com/news https://news.ycombinator.com/news
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- naniwaduni 3y ago
  You see a lot of this kind of thing: "spiders aren't bugs", "whales aren't fish", "strawberries aren't berries"—no, words mean things, unfortunately, even if that's a little inconvenient for taxonomers!
  - margalabargala 3y ago
    > "spiders aren't bugs" This one is particularly egregious, because they literally are. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bug https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bug They may not be insects, but non-insect arthropods are included in the definition of "bug".
Dylan16807 3y ago
> original philosophical meaning It was a stupid translation, so I don't mind people retaking the words for their actual meaning.

lupire 3y ago

I sanction this comment.

margalabargala 3y ago

I take objection to the characterization of "begging the question" having a changed/incorrect meaning. I assert that the "original philosophical meaning" is the fad idiom, and the common usage is a true parsing of the words unrelated to the idiom. "This begs the question of why X Y Z" is just a shortening of "this [thing you said] begs [that] the question [be asked] of why X Y Z". I think the only reason there's any discussion about it at all is because the sorts of people who are likely to use the idiom of "begging the question" with regard to logic, are the sort of people who enjoy being pedantic about other people's language, and this presents an opportunity to do so. You could say I'm plussed about the whole thing. It brings up a whelming amount of emotion in me.

gizajob 3y ago
You might be correct, but it begs the question: where are your citations for that?
- margalabargala 3y ago
  You would like a citation that people with an interest in rhetoric and logic tend to be pedantic and more likely to correct others if they see an opportunity to do so? I cite the comment section of https://news.ycombinator.com/news https://news.ycombinator.com/news
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
naniwaduni 3y ago
You see a lot of this kind of thing: "spiders aren't bugs", "whales aren't fish", "strawberries aren't berries"—no, words mean things, unfortunately, even if that's a little inconvenient for taxonomers!
- margalabargala 3y ago
  > "spiders aren't bugs" This one is particularly egregious, because they literally are. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bug https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bug They may not be insects, but non-insect arthropods are included in the definition of "bug".

Dylan16807 3y ago

> original philosophical meaning It was a stupid translation, so I don't mind people retaking the words for their actual meaning.