3 ms·

> Most of this abuse of personal data would go away if people knew it was going on. GDPR proves this wrong. Most people click OK/accept even in front of relati

by sofixa 3y ago

> Most of this abuse of personal data would go away if people knew it was going on. GDPR proves this wrong. Most people click OK/accept even in front of relatively clear information (to be fair sometimes the options are "accept for you to be tracked and shared with 'our partners' or pay a subscription/fee", which is an easy choice for many.

spinningD20 3y ago
Yet if the business model / customer's _existing_ service agreement is changed, the temperature of the water that the frog is in just went up a little bit, so folks continue using it, which is what often happens as well. "well, I'm not sure if they're going to start collecting or using my data, because I don't actually really KNOW that or the extent of everything, just an email from them with a vague update to an equally vague privacy policy that I apparently implicitly agree to if I don't discontinue using their service." Just like a manufacturer/seller on say, amazon shouldn't be able to revise their product with cheaper quality under the same model number (and yet it happens all the time), changes to the agreement of a service should be treated as a new service. Whatever the solution, it should be a big enough deal that it cannot be implicitly agreed to, and clear enough language (maybe vetted by a third party review of the agreement) to communicate to all users, what is at stake and how, to which third parties, etc.
38 3y ago
This is misleading. The OK is almost universally made easier to click through dark patterns, with the "reject" being hidden or taking more clicks
- cogman10 3y ago
  Yup. At least 2 clicks and you have to process what you are clicking to understand. I've seen more than a few sites where it's "Ok" then "Customize" followed by a bunch of checkboxes to disable cookies while the "accept all button" is where typically "OK" would be and the "reject all" is often labeled something else that isn't clear. This is also not often remembered on future visits so you end up doing this dance every time you visit that site.
- ikiris 3y ago
  And those are illegal under gdpr, and enforcement is slow but happening. Whats your point?
hocuspocus 3y ago
In this very case, the GDPR is scary enough that European carriers make sure to anonymize and aggregate analytics they sell to third parties. Even if you click OK, a data leak would be pretty harmless and wouldn't identify you personally.
- sroussey 3y ago
  Location data that includes your home in the suburbs is pretty identifiable.
  - hocuspocus 3y ago
    Carrier position accuracy is pretty shit in low density areas, you aggregate (e.g. per H3 tile), apply scaling (no operator has 100% market share) and K-anonymity.
onli 3y ago
Many people click no whenever there is not a manipulated choice. See https://www.cnil.fr/en/evolution-practices-web-regarding-cookies-cnil-evaluates-impact-its-action-plan-0 https://www.cnil.fr/en/evolution-practices-web-regarding-coo... "Most" may be correct, but given how annoying those banners are I would not read too much into that.
keybored 3y ago
When presented with 50 prompts throughout the day, 95% of which makes clicking OK easier than clicking decline, most people (allegedly) click OK. What an easy choice to be nagged at every new website.

by sofixa 3y ago

spinningD20 3y ago

Yet if the business model / customer's _existing_ service agreement is changed, the temperature of the water that the frog is in just went up a little bit, so folks continue using it, which is what often happens as well. "well, I'm not sure if they're going to start collecting or using my data, because I don't actually really KNOW that or the extent of everything, just an email from them with a vague update to an equally vague privacy policy that I apparently implicitly agree to if I don't discontinue using their service." Just like a manufacturer/seller on say, amazon shouldn't be able to revise their product with cheaper quality under the same model number (and yet it happens all the time), changes to the agreement of a service should be treated as a new service. Whatever the solution, it should be a big enough deal that it cannot be implicitly agreed to, and clear enough language (maybe vetted by a third party review of the agreement) to communicate to all users, what is at stake and how, to which third parties, etc.

38 3y ago

This is misleading. The OK is almost universally made easier to click through dark patterns, with the "reject" being hidden or taking more clicks

cogman10 3y ago
Yup. At least 2 clicks and you have to process what you are clicking to understand. I've seen more than a few sites where it's "Ok" then "Customize" followed by a bunch of checkboxes to disable cookies while the "accept all button" is where typically "OK" would be and the "reject all" is often labeled something else that isn't clear. This is also not often remembered on future visits so you end up doing this dance every time you visit that site.
ikiris 3y ago
And those are illegal under gdpr, and enforcement is slow but happening. Whats your point?

hocuspocus 3y ago

In this very case, the GDPR is scary enough that European carriers make sure to anonymize and aggregate analytics they sell to third parties. Even if you click OK, a data leak would be pretty harmless and wouldn't identify you personally.

sroussey 3y ago
Location data that includes your home in the suburbs is pretty identifiable.
- hocuspocus 3y ago
  Carrier position accuracy is pretty shit in low density areas, you aggregate (e.g. per H3 tile), apply scaling (no operator has 100% market share) and K-anonymity.

onli 3y ago

Many people click no whenever there is not a manipulated choice. See https://www.cnil.fr/en/evolution-practices-web-regarding-cookies-cnil-evaluates-impact-its-action-plan-0 https://www.cnil.fr/en/evolution-practices-web-regarding-coo... "Most" may be correct, but given how annoying those banners are I would not read too much into that.

keybored 3y ago

When presented with 50 prompts throughout the day, 95% of which makes clicking OK easier than clicking decline, most people (allegedly) click OK. What an easy choice to be nagged at every new website.