4 ms·

IMO it’s way more than “some flaws”. I bought into the hype and finally read the first book recently. The plot, prose, the characters, literally everything exc

IMO it’s way more than “some flaws”. I bought into the hype and finally read the first book recently. The plot, prose, the characters, literally everything except a couple of really neat sci-fi ideas is comically poor. So bad that you start to wonder if you accidentally rented 2007’s Transmorphers at Blockbuster instead of Transformers.

ospray 2y ago
The series gets better don't stop at the first book.
- jnovek 2y ago
  FYI, the first half of the second book is very slow and somewhat cringe at times. You just have to plow through because the back-half of the second book + the third book are a wild ride that's totally worth it.
  - irowe 2y ago
    I'd agree that the second book has the highest cringe per page. The Luo Ji character was laughably bad.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  I definitely feel like the series gets worse as it goes on. The first book is incredible though, so it's hard to really go up from there. IMO the first book in that series deserves every bit of accolade it gets and then some.
- lmm 2y ago
  The first book is what, 500 pages? That's too much time to spend reading crap. I was ready to give up about a third of the way through but people told me it got better so I carried on (and I foolishly assumed there must be some reason it run the Hugo). It did not get better.
  - Izikiel43 2y ago
    Just a day of reading, it passes by fast, I read the whole tetralogy in 4 days, 1 per book, really liked them
    - xandrius 2y ago
      Just understand that not everyone skim reads 500 pages in a day. 500 pages for me take probably a month or so.
- hoseja 2y ago
  It does not.
A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
The first book was not great. I particularly hated that stupid monofilament thing --- it's physically impossible for what should be obvious reasons. The second book is much better, though, and the third is better still. If you've managed to work your way through the first, it's probably worth checking out the others. They're nothing mind-blowing. But they're very competently written (unlike the first book, which was loaded with errors,) their scale is reminiscent of Stephen Baxter's grander works, and the trilogy is rather more accessible than a lot of Baxter's stuff.
- Shorel 2y ago
  > it's physically impossible for what should be obvious reasons. In our universe, it is impossible. In the universe of the book, if technology existed to unfold protons, those same protons could be woven into a long fibre, resulting in a material thinner and stronger than anything made from conventional atoms. Regardless of whether this is a sound argument, it remains purely fictional. =)
burnte 2y ago
I couldn't agree with you more.
breuleux 2y ago
Even the "neat" sci-fi ideas are often complete nonsense, such as the whole concept of sophons, which leverage a neat fringe idea of theoretical physics while running afoul of boring, well-established physics.
- ajross 2y ago
  Isn't that true for basically all speculative sci-fi? The point to the form is to pick an idea with "enough plausibility" and extend it to an interesting implication. Not all "sci-fi" can be (or should be) 2001 or The Martian; Foundation and Dune are kinda good books too.
  - breuleux 2y ago
    To various extents, yes, but it is easier to suspend one's disbelief about certain things than others. The main issue with sophons is that they routinely have to interact with quantities of energy that should annihilate them: when they are unfolded, for instance, they have to bear the impact of light all over their planet-spanning surface. They are "god-tier" technology, but only because they flaunt basic conservation of energy. I find it harder to suspend my disbelief about that than e.g. faster than light travel. Foundation and Dune's premises are much tamer, and neither story collapses entirely if they turn out to be false.
    - asdasdsddd 2y ago
      Ah yes, eating worm poop is the only thing that allows humans to navigate ships moving at light speed is more plausible.
      - breuleux 2y ago
        It is unironically more plausible than etching a supercomputer inside a proton, yes. It's odd, but it's not broken.
      - yongjik 2y ago
        Forget lightspeed: melding your body with worms give you first-person access to memories of your ancestors. Like, your ancestors who lived in Ancient Greece. And all others. Sophon is downright mundane compared to this.
rendaw 2y ago
I watched the Tencent show based on the immense praise here at HN and I agree. The characters especially, but even none of the major plot pieces had any actual bearing on the plot. If you replace the robots in "I, robot" you'd have a completely different work. If you replace the "three body system" in "three body" with an impending nova, or asteroid, or a billion other disasters you'd... still have essentially the same story. What was the point of the game (read: the game's had no real world purpose and was merely a plot device to convolute exposition)? Omnipotent handwavey magic alien technology what? People here saying "well the second book is better"... should have qualified their praise for the first book a bit more because I'm rather disinclined to believe it.
AStrangeMorrow 2y ago
Yeah, I did enjoy the books, but the characters are not great and the prose pretty basic, the romances fall flat etc. But the more you go on the more interesting science fiction are brought up. Overall I thought that these were some great and thought-provoking science function ideas wrapped up in an average to poor literary package.

ospray 2y ago

The series gets better don't stop at the first book.

jnovek 2y ago
FYI, the first half of the second book is very slow and somewhat cringe at times. You just have to plow through because the back-half of the second book + the third book are a wild ride that's totally worth it.
- irowe 2y ago
  I'd agree that the second book has the highest cringe per page. The Luo Ji character was laughably bad.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
I definitely feel like the series gets worse as it goes on. The first book is incredible though, so it's hard to really go up from there. IMO the first book in that series deserves every bit of accolade it gets and then some.
lmm 2y ago
The first book is what, 500 pages? That's too much time to spend reading crap. I was ready to give up about a third of the way through but people told me it got better so I carried on (and I foolishly assumed there must be some reason it run the Hugo). It did not get better.
- Izikiel43 2y ago
  Just a day of reading, it passes by fast, I read the whole tetralogy in 4 days, 1 per book, really liked them
  - xandrius 2y ago
    Just understand that not everyone skim reads 500 pages in a day. 500 pages for me take probably a month or so.
hoseja 2y ago
It does not.

A_D_E_P_T 2y ago

The first book was not great. I particularly hated that stupid monofilament thing --- it's physically impossible for what should be obvious reasons. The second book is much better, though, and the third is better still. If you've managed to work your way through the first, it's probably worth checking out the others. They're nothing mind-blowing. But they're very competently written (unlike the first book, which was loaded with errors,) their scale is reminiscent of Stephen Baxter's grander works, and the trilogy is rather more accessible than a lot of Baxter's stuff.

Shorel 2y ago
> it's physically impossible for what should be obvious reasons. In our universe, it is impossible. In the universe of the book, if technology existed to unfold protons, those same protons could be woven into a long fibre, resulting in a material thinner and stronger than anything made from conventional atoms. Regardless of whether this is a sound argument, it remains purely fictional. =)

burnte 2y ago

I couldn't agree with you more.

breuleux 2y ago

Even the "neat" sci-fi ideas are often complete nonsense, such as the whole concept of sophons, which leverage a neat fringe idea of theoretical physics while running afoul of boring, well-established physics.

ajross 2y ago
Isn't that true for basically all speculative sci-fi? The point to the form is to pick an idea with "enough plausibility" and extend it to an interesting implication. Not all "sci-fi" can be (or should be) 2001 or The Martian; Foundation and Dune are kinda good books too.
- breuleux 2y ago
  To various extents, yes, but it is easier to suspend one's disbelief about certain things than others. The main issue with sophons is that they routinely have to interact with quantities of energy that should annihilate them: when they are unfolded, for instance, they have to bear the impact of light all over their planet-spanning surface. They are "god-tier" technology, but only because they flaunt basic conservation of energy. I find it harder to suspend my disbelief about that than e.g. faster than light travel. Foundation and Dune's premises are much tamer, and neither story collapses entirely if they turn out to be false.
  - asdasdsddd 2y ago
    Ah yes, eating worm poop is the only thing that allows humans to navigate ships moving at light speed is more plausible.
    - breuleux 2y ago
      It is unironically more plausible than etching a supercomputer inside a proton, yes. It's odd, but it's not broken.
    - yongjik 2y ago
      Forget lightspeed: melding your body with worms give you first-person access to memories of your ancestors. Like, your ancestors who lived in Ancient Greece. And all others. Sophon is downright mundane compared to this.

rendaw 2y ago

I watched the Tencent show based on the immense praise here at HN and I agree. The characters especially, but even none of the major plot pieces had any actual bearing on the plot. If you replace the robots in "I, robot" you'd have a completely different work. If you replace the "three body system" in "three body" with an impending nova, or asteroid, or a billion other disasters you'd... still have essentially the same story. What was the point of the game (read: the game's had no real world purpose and was merely a plot device to convolute exposition)? Omnipotent handwavey magic alien technology what? People here saying "well the second book is better"... should have qualified their praise for the first book a bit more because I'm rather disinclined to believe it.

AStrangeMorrow 2y ago

Yeah, I did enjoy the books, but the characters are not great and the prose pretty basic, the romances fall flat etc. But the more you go on the more interesting science fiction are brought up. Overall I thought that these were some great and thought-provoking science function ideas wrapped up in an average to poor literary package.