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That doesn't make sense. Of course it's a "single point of failure". I don't think anyone could have ever thought otherwise. A competing archive service would u

That doesn't make sense. Of course it's a "single point of failure". I don't think anyone could have ever thought otherwise. A competing archive service would undoubtedly be great for humanity.

vgkjfhwebfk 2y ago
https://archive.ph/ https://archive.ph/
- bombcar 2y ago
  This one is even more frightening, as it's (as far as I know) a one-man show that could disappear at any time.
  - vgkjfhwebfk 2y ago
    Yes, it could, but IA, which - up to now - looked more professional and reliable could, too. And, unexpectedly, that's what's happening now. Maybe archive.ph will also surprise us, by being more resilient. Anyway, it's an alternative, for now.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  This is NOT anywhere near what the IA provides.
  - vgkjfhwebfk 2y ago
    Yes, it's an alternative, not a copy. For example, it doesn't provide "emergency library" style borrowing, and maybe this missing feature is a pro, not a con.
    - lima 2y ago
      It archives a much smaller part of the internet, it't not an IA replacement.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      On the other hand, it's doing something similarly dubious with paywalled news articles in that it bypasses many news sites' paywalls and supposedly injects its own ads next to the content. There are even many comment threads detailing their strategy to avoid legal takedown requests by serving content via an "anti-CDN" (i.e. always serving content from abroad whenever possible, to make legal actions more difficult).
- denton-scratch 2y ago
  I tried to hit archive.is, archive.ph and archive.org yesterday. They were all down, and archive.is seems to still be down.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Any chance you're using Cloudflare DNS (directly or via e.g. iCloud Private Relay)? The people (person?) running archive have a somewhat complicated history with them.
    - denton-scratch 2y ago
      Not using Cloudflare DNS, I use my own recursive resolver. And by "archive", I assume you mean archive.org; archive.is and archive.ph are different people.
      - lxgr 2y ago
        No, I meant .is, .today etc; archive.org does not do weird DNS things to my knowledge.
bombcar 2y ago
I think people don't really stop to consider - the Internet Archive could be gone tomorrow; either through legal action, malice, accident, mismanagement of the non-profit, etc. It's just considered "an Internet tool that exists". I would argue that their attempt to even try this emergency library thing indicates that the people in charge are a bit too cavalier with what they have, for whatever (likely well-intentioned) reasons they may have. And while individuals can mirror/datahoard the publicly facing parts of the IA, that's not all they have access too.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  So, we need a distributed planet-size, multi-redundant, partly-encrypted, archive that can absorb and host the entirety of IA multiple times (for redundancy), INCLUDING the borrowing library.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Yes. If you have the pockets and logistics behind you, I'm sure Brewster would invite you for lunch to discuss. You'll need people for infra ops, people to coordinate hosting racks across the globe (preferably on every reasonable continent), and whatever the current cost is of a few exabytes of cost efficient storage hardware.
  - afc 2y ago
    This comment reminded me of famous quote: "When someone says "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done," give him a lollipop."
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      I didn't say it'd be easy. In fact, I was being sarcastic. Sadly, my doctor also said I can't have the lollipop.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    "why build one when you can have two at twice the price" they have a duplicate headquarters in Vancouver now, a similarly grand building to their SF headquarters. Years ago there was a collab with the library of Alexandria in Egypt to host an offsite backup but I don't think it panned out.
Animats 2y ago
> A competing archive service would undoubtedly be great for humanity. There was supposed to be a second archive at the Bibelotheque Alexandrina in Egypt.[1] It worked for a few years. But it seems to be down now. [1] https://www.bibalex.org/en/Project/Details?DocumentID=283&Keywords=internet%20archive https://www.bibalex.org/en/Project/Details?DocumentID=283&Ke... [2] http://web.archive.bibalex.org/ http://web.archive.bibalex.org/

That doesn't make sense. Of course it's a "single point of failure". I don't think anyone could have ever thought otherwise. A competing archive service would undoubtedly be great for humanity.

vgkjfhwebfk 2y ago

https://archive.ph/ https://archive.ph/

bombcar 2y ago
This one is even more frightening, as it's (as far as I know) a one-man show that could disappear at any time.
- vgkjfhwebfk 2y ago
  Yes, it could, but IA, which - up to now - looked more professional and reliable could, too. And, unexpectedly, that's what's happening now. Maybe archive.ph will also surprise us, by being more resilient. Anyway, it's an alternative, for now.
rbanffy 2y ago
This is NOT anywhere near what the IA provides.
- vgkjfhwebfk 2y ago
  Yes, it's an alternative, not a copy. For example, it doesn't provide "emergency library" style borrowing, and maybe this missing feature is a pro, not a con.
  - lima 2y ago
    It archives a much smaller part of the internet, it't not an IA replacement.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    On the other hand, it's doing something similarly dubious with paywalled news articles in that it bypasses many news sites' paywalls and supposedly injects its own ads next to the content. There are even many comment threads detailing their strategy to avoid legal takedown requests by serving content via an "anti-CDN" (i.e. always serving content from abroad whenever possible, to make legal actions more difficult).
denton-scratch 2y ago
I tried to hit archive.is, archive.ph and archive.org yesterday. They were all down, and archive.is seems to still be down.
- lxgr 2y ago
  Any chance you're using Cloudflare DNS (directly or via e.g. iCloud Private Relay)? The people (person?) running archive have a somewhat complicated history with them.
  - denton-scratch 2y ago
    Not using Cloudflare DNS, I use my own recursive resolver. And by "archive", I assume you mean archive.org; archive.is and archive.ph are different people.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      No, I meant .is, .today etc; archive.org does not do weird DNS things to my knowledge.

bombcar 2y ago

I think people don't really stop to consider - the Internet Archive could be gone tomorrow; either through legal action, malice, accident, mismanagement of the non-profit, etc. It's just considered "an Internet tool that exists". I would argue that their attempt to even try this emergency library thing indicates that the people in charge are a bit too cavalier with what they have, for whatever (likely well-intentioned) reasons they may have. And while individuals can mirror/datahoard the publicly facing parts of the IA, that's not all they have access too.

rbanffy 2y ago
So, we need a distributed planet-size, multi-redundant, partly-encrypted, archive that can absorb and host the entirety of IA multiple times (for redundancy), INCLUDING the borrowing library.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Yes. If you have the pockets and logistics behind you, I'm sure Brewster would invite you for lunch to discuss. You'll need people for infra ops, people to coordinate hosting racks across the globe (preferably on every reasonable continent), and whatever the current cost is of a few exabytes of cost efficient storage hardware.
- afc 2y ago
  This comment reminded me of famous quote: "When someone says "I want a programming language in which I need only say what I wish done," give him a lollipop."
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    I didn't say it'd be easy. In fact, I was being sarcastic. Sadly, my doctor also said I can't have the lollipop.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  "why build one when you can have two at twice the price" they have a duplicate headquarters in Vancouver now, a similarly grand building to their SF headquarters. Years ago there was a collab with the library of Alexandria in Egypt to host an offsite backup but I don't think it panned out.

Animats 2y ago

> A competing archive service would undoubtedly be great for humanity. There was supposed to be a second archive at the Bibelotheque Alexandrina in Egypt.[1] It worked for a few years. But it seems to be down now. [1] https://www.bibalex.org/en/Project/Details?DocumentID=283&Keywords=internet%20archive https://www.bibalex.org/en/Project/Details?DocumentID=283&Ke... [2] http://web.archive.bibalex.org/ http://web.archive.bibalex.org/