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Apple has crippled iPadOS and consumers need the EU to force Apple to make moves that actually benefits the consumer. The fact that the real Chrome browser is n

Apple has crippled iPadOS and consumers need the EU to force Apple to make moves that actually benefits the consumer. The fact that the real Chrome browser is not allowed on the iPad means the iPad as a web browsing machine is literally worse than a cheap Chromebook. Most developers put the majority of their effort to optimising their apps for the web and the best extensions are made for Chrome on desktop. Safari is just a piece of junk. The only reason it has any marketshare at all on iOS and iPadOS is because Apple is being anticompetitive and doesn't have to compete with Google. When they do have to compete on MacOS, guess what. People are voting and the vast majority like and chose to install Chrome. Apple users claim Chrome users don't know any better and Safari is so much better but that's the argument Android and Windows users like to make about Apple users in general so that argument is moot.

hakanderyal 2y ago
Is there any public data about browser usage on MacOS? I rarely see people using Chrome on a Mac.
- infotainment 2y ago
  I’ve had the opposite experience; I’ve literally never seen anyone using Safari on a Mac. Even tech illiterate people always seem to end up with Chrome somehow.
  - servus45678981 2y ago
    Aren‘t tech illiterate people the ones using chrome?
    - luuurker 2y ago
      It depends? If you're a more advanced user, need extensions, and a more complete browser overall, you have to use Chrome(ium) and Firefox.
    - danmur 2y ago
      They're the ones using Apple products generally so there's certainly overlap with both chrome and safari
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - flohofwoe 2y ago
      Lol, no. An important reason for me to not use Safari is that it doesn't support uBlock Origin, 'tech illiterate people' rarely care about ad-blocking.
      - hakanderyal 2y ago
        I used Firefox before safari because of uBlock Origin, but performance and battery life were big problems. There are ad blockers in Safari gives me the same end result as uBlock Origin.
  - JKCalhoun 2y ago
    > Even tech illiterate people always seem to end up with Chrome somehow. Ha ha, because they are unable to quit the app.
- WA 2y ago
  Surprisingly hard to find this info. This says it’s 66% for Chrome on macOS: https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22platform%22%3A%7B%22%24in%22%3A%5B%22Mac%20OS%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222022-04%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222023-03%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?opt...
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  Anecdotally, GSuite works a lot better on Chrome than any other browsers I've tried. Unsurprisingly companies opting for GSuite will see a larger share of chrome use, it might as well be preinstalled when handing down the computer or mandated at IT level when the intranet and other corporate SaaS is explicitely tested for chrome first.
meindnoch 2y ago
Chrome is a resource hog spyware. I only use Safari, both on desktop and mobile/tablet.
- Allezxandre 2y ago
  Is it? My experience with Arc (which I would assume would be heavier than Chrome) has been that it adds a lot of scary entries in the Resource Monitor App, but doesn't impact my day-to-day use on my 16 Gb M1 MBP. With Safari, on the other hand, I've experienced audio stutter and delays when using resource intensive wep-apps like YouTube, Figma, Netflix and others.
  - meindnoch 2y ago
    YouTube and Netflix are resource intensive webapps? What is so resource intensive about them? A <video> element?
    - f_devd 2y ago
      Not for YouTube, but Netflix DRM possibly?
      - meindnoch 2y ago
        You think DRM is implemented in software? :D
    - abhinavk 2y ago
      Widevine DRM for Netflix. AV1 decoding and the SPA for YouTube.
      - Hamuko 2y ago
        Apple's M3 has AV1 hardware decoding, so I imagine that shouldn't be a massive issue in the future.
      - microtonal 2y ago
threeseed 2y ago
[flagged]
- arccy 2y ago
  if anything safari is IE 2.0: stagnating / holding back web platform evolution and forced onto you by the OS vendor
  - frizlab 2y ago
    https://wpt.fyi/interop-2024?stable https://wpt.fyi/interop-2024?stable Just because something works in chrom(ium) does not mean it should work on “the web.”
    - mdhb 2y ago
      https://wpt.fyi/results/ https://wpt.fyi/results/ Safari has more than double the number of standards tests that fail in their browser alone than anyone else. They are stupidly behind where they should be and intentionally did their best to cripple the web platform as a viable app platform to iOS.
      - frizlab 2y ago
        Given the standards are basically written because of chrom(ium) features I fail to see how that’s surprising. Firefox, which is literally a browser company, has twice as tests failings compared to chrome. Yes, Safari has more failures, but I would not call it “stupidly behind.” Safari is a decent browser and works well (I use it everyday professionally and personally and have next to no issues). EDIT: I’d like to point there are a lot of “failures” I’m glad are actually not implemented in Safari (e.g. the accelerometer API should not exist in a browser, nor should the API to make my device vibrate, etc.).
        mdhb 2y ago
        It’s the least capable browser on the market with the highest number of bugs by a huge margin and produced by the richest company in the world. It’s not by any reasonable standard a decent browser judged against its peers. They do less and they do it worse but with more people than Firefox at least.
servus45678981 2y ago
Atleast there is Safari. Safari is without a doubt better than Chrome - with Efficiency, Simplicity and Privacy. Chrome is spyware and bloated; even more than Chromium lmao
- threeseed 2y ago
  The problem is with Chromium. They recklessly add any random API with very little thought given to privacy and security. Which is why advertisers have been able to create browser fingerprinting that can be close to 99% accurate. All cheered on by fools who think Safari and Firefox are stagnant by being more careful and pushing for standards.
  - PlutoIsAPlanet 2y ago
    > little thought given to privacy and security They do think about privacy, they just want you to have none.
  - wil421 2y ago
    Isn’t this all by design? Google’s not going to take Apple-like steps to stop tracking and fingerprinting.
Someone 2y ago
> Apple has crippled iPadOS and consumers need the EU to force Apple to make moves that actually benefits the consumer I won’t go into whether that’s true, but I don’t think the EU has any objection against companies selling (or attempting to sell) bad products. The EU is acting because they think companies effectively do not have the choice of going around Apple to reach their customers, and that is limiting competition.
- Seanambers 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - cesaref 2y ago
    linux
    - rijoja 2y ago
      arm
  - piva00 2y ago
    You like to beat this drum, it's not the first time I read it coming from your username but... It's not the reality, while you ignore companies like Ericsson and ASLM providing basic tenets for high-end manufacturing of network equipment and chips. ARM used to be in the EU until Brexit. No, there are no flashy Amazons, Googles or Apples (or more frivolous and damaging stuff like AirBnbs, Ubers, etc.) from the EU but that doesn't mean it has lost the hardware and software dimension, if you meant "consumer hardware/software" I could give you a little more credit but since you've been beating the same dead horse for a long while on your anti-EU comments in HN it's pretty hard to start any meaningful conversation to understand your point of view. You don't like the EU, that's ok, just try to bring more meaningful arguments than this childish us-vs-them that seems to crop up from you quite constantly when Europe is talked about around here.
    - emjoes1 2y ago
Khaine 2y ago
Most people just want to browse websites, they don't want an OS in a web browser running on their OS. Web developers love chrome because it's turning the web browser into the lowest common denominator operating system. It's a terrible idea. I want native apps, I hate web-apps, I hate Electron apps. They all have UI tweaks that don't fit in with native apps, are typically slower and more bloated. But because most web developers are useless, its all that is ever built these days.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  > they don't want an OS in a web browser running on their OS. IMHO that ship has sailed. With the current state of the web, what JS needs to do and what it needs access to, any mainstream web browser needs to become an OS in all shape and form. Managing Skype or Zoom on the web is so far away from displaying Craiglist 20 years ago, and users sure want to be able to open a link and interact with the service without having to download an app. And this acceleration in web "pages" becoming full fledge apps is of course partly caused by Apple and its control on what can and cannot be distributed in the AppStore and middlemanning all payments. And god forbid to have multiple versions of the same app with different users for instance.
  - Khaine 2y ago
    Sure, but I don't want a web-app to be able to send me push notifications (all I've ever seen it used by is stupid websites sending what amounts to SPAM), or vibrate my device, or use the accelerometer. ~80% of web usage is looking at web-sites, and most of them are already a bloated mess of JS. If anything, the web would be much better if more sites were like craigslist. That ~20% is not worth the cost in terms of privacy, security, complexity, battery usage. I would rather a native app, or use a competing service that provides one.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      You don't want that, but people are looking at gmail or google calendar on the web, and notifications are a huge QOL. Getting access to the accelerometer feels niche, but accessing the NFC chip, phone contacts, the camera or real time locations would be more common. Dealing with the security and privacy aspects of those would be enough to get near the complexity of an OS. And to note...looking at the facebook app for instance, being native doesn't seem to be a protection from bloat, it will there either way. On the web as a static thing, sure 80% of the web is fine as a static information. The 20% on the other hand are things we care a lot about, and I personally hate the "why don't you install our app?" prompt on every damn site. Reddit is the poster child of this, and god no I don't want their native app. To each their own I guess.
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
Safari has it's issues but Chrome isn't the pinnacle anymore, it's clear an enshitification is happening from the team who works on the wrapper UI. - Dark patterns to trick you into Google Pay - Those stupid sign in with your Google account dialogs you can't disable and make the website input glitch in weird ways, steal focus and I don't think they can even be dismissed with esc. - The "Lens" sidebar - Bimonthly popups about "themes" and "Ad Topics" dark patterns - Copying console.logs is now broken in weird ways as of a few updates ago
- oaiey 2y ago
  Chrome is worth a separate investigation from the EU and others. Chrome is massively layer breaching with Google Service. There is a reason why chrome comes as Chrome and as Edge. Because both companies add stuff which no one wants there on top while cooperating on the thing we really want (the HTML, JS, engine). I should really find a fork which is focused on not adding on top.
  - crashmat 2y ago
    isn't this ungoogled chromium? Or base chromium?
dwb 2y ago
> Safari is just a piece of junk ? I'm absolutely for Apple opening up to allow other browsers, but for me Safari is at least fine. I use it for preference on macOS too, it's very resource-efficient.
kgdiem 2y ago
I use Safari on desktop and mobile particularly because private browsing doesn’t share sessions between tabs/windows whereas chrome does. Somewhat niche yes but I loathe chrome for that behavior. Is there a way to turn that off? > Most developers put the majority of their effort to optimising their apps for the web and the best extensions are made for Chrome on desktop Also, I’m guilty of this as a safari user, lol. My extension is available on Chrome + ForeFox but it’s too much of a pain to make a free extension for safari.
est31 2y ago
> and the best extensions are made for Chrome on desktop. Note that Chrome on Android doesn't support extensions either, especially no adblockers. > People are voting and the vast majority like and chose to install Chrome Is it really users voting when Chrome is the only browser that works with some websites? Apple is the only thing standing in Chrome's way of becoming a global browser monopoly. The last time this has happened it was devastating for the web. The web is also way smaller than it is now.
chongli 2y ago
I happen to like Safari quite a lot (battery life, clean, fast/responsive UI, no shilling of Google services). I am dismayed at the direction Apple is heading as a company and I don't at all care for the way they market computing as a luxury product. What frustrates me the most though is how aggressive and pervasive all the big tech companies have become. Attempts to regulate one seem to benefit another. In this case, regulations to force Apple to open up their platform walled gardens will primarily benefit Google and Meta. On the other hand, the regulations to rein in the latter companies (GDPR) seem to have largely failed and only serve to widen their moats with barriers to entry. It honestly feels like we've spawned a multi-headed hydra and it's only going to grow more heads (LLMs?) as regulators struggle to keep up. Does anyone have any different ideas on how to solve this?
ejmatta 2y ago
> Most developers put the majority of their effort to optimising their apps for the web and the best extensions are made for Chrome on desktop. You're changing one monopoly for another in the name of convenience. This is the wrong way to think. We have Firefox and Safari for a good reason, and should support them as to not make another IE.
r00fus 2y ago
> Safari is just a piece of junk. Where does it fall down? Some of the later RFPs for web technology (bluetooth, battery level, etc) aren't supported but I think I agree more with Apple than some random web-app developer. Chrome is the new IE. Forget that.
thiht 2y ago
> Safari is just a piece of junk This hasn't been true for a few years. When I bought my first iPhone a few years ago (the iPhone 12 in 2020), Safari indeed was a piece of junk. But starting the very next iteration cycle (iOS 14 or 15 I think) they fixed almost all the issues I had with it (tons of bugs, including rendering issues on some sites, but also quality of life features, like moving the URL bar at the bottom). At first I used Safari because there was no other choice, today I use it because it's a decent browser and doesn't drain battery too much. Even if Firefox with Gecko or Chrome with Blink were available, I would stick with Safari.
- sillyfluke 2y ago
  If the browser release process and scheduling sucks, from a practical standpoint the browser also sucks. I have a M1 laptop and one-before-last iphone SE that cannot open a ticketing website from a major global airline on Safari without an OS update. Irony being I can open the same website on all chromium browsers and firefox without an OS update. If this is not a completely broken experience, I don't know what is.
  - wappieslurkz 2y ago
    The fact that site doesn't work on Safari but does on other browsers doesn't have to mean it's Safari that's bugging out here, it could just be junk code they developed while only testing on all those browsers -except Safari- until it worked on those. Not a Safari issue in that case.
    - sillyfluke 2y ago
      I think you are completely missing my point here. The website works on the Safari that comes with the latest OS. I can't update the Safari version without updating the OS with a 14GB update. Nevermind the extremely annoying hassle of having to backup the devices before the updates "just in case". I don't have to do that for any non-Apple browser while using the same Apple laptop. [0] I think it was the late and great Joe Armstrong who said, in a tongue-in-cheek remark on object oriented programming, "You want a banana, but to get the banana you need the gorilla holding the banana and the [goddamn] rain forest it lives in." (brackets might be my frustrated addition.) [0] there were other websites that would work seamlessly on other browsers but would throw security errors that disappeared after the OS update, including an email provider that is regular posted about on HN.
cassianoleal 2y ago
I will choose Safari over Chrome any day. My main browser is Firefox, with Safari second. I don't have Chrome installed on any of my devices, and will stay away from it until the unfortunate day when Chrome is finally exactly synonymous with the Web. What I want from my iPad is to be able to dual-boot into macOS. Everything else are small steps with the intent of postponing the ability to run a full-blown OS on the device. Incidentally, you can run Chrome on the iPad if it can run macOS.
moi2388 2y ago
What are you talking about? Safari is much better than chrome. Less spyware, MUCH faster, great customization, great tab/history sharing, better caching and much lower resource usage. Literally the only problem is lack of thirdparty apps, but apart from a great downloader and adblocker I don’t really need much. I don’t even want alternative stores, now my mother can download unverified apps from shady sources, before that was too difficult for her to do.
thedrbrian 2y ago
> doesn't have to compete with Google If chrome/google is so good then why aren’t people buying pixels for it? Why does google need the EU to break iPadOS?
switch007 2y ago
[flagged]

hakanderyal 2y ago

Is there any public data about browser usage on MacOS? I rarely see people using Chrome on a Mac.

infotainment 2y ago
I’ve had the opposite experience; I’ve literally never seen anyone using Safari on a Mac. Even tech illiterate people always seem to end up with Chrome somehow.
- servus45678981 2y ago
  Aren‘t tech illiterate people the ones using chrome?
  - luuurker 2y ago
    It depends? If you're a more advanced user, need extensions, and a more complete browser overall, you have to use Chrome(ium) and Firefox.
  - danmur 2y ago
    They're the ones using Apple products generally so there's certainly overlap with both chrome and safari
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - flohofwoe 2y ago
    Lol, no. An important reason for me to not use Safari is that it doesn't support uBlock Origin, 'tech illiterate people' rarely care about ad-blocking.
    - hakanderyal 2y ago
      I used Firefox before safari because of uBlock Origin, but performance and battery life were big problems. There are ad blockers in Safari gives me the same end result as uBlock Origin.
- JKCalhoun 2y ago
  > Even tech illiterate people always seem to end up with Chrome somehow. Ha ha, because they are unable to quit the app.
WA 2y ago
Surprisingly hard to find this info. This says it’s 66% for Chrome on macOS: https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22platform%22%3A%7B%22%24in%22%3A%5B%22Mac%20OS%22%5D%7D%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222022-04%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222023-03%22%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?opt...
makeitdouble 2y ago
Anecdotally, GSuite works a lot better on Chrome than any other browsers I've tried. Unsurprisingly companies opting for GSuite will see a larger share of chrome use, it might as well be preinstalled when handing down the computer or mandated at IT level when the intranet and other corporate SaaS is explicitely tested for chrome first.

meindnoch 2y ago

Chrome is a resource hog spyware. I only use Safari, both on desktop and mobile/tablet.

Allezxandre 2y ago
Is it? My experience with Arc (which I would assume would be heavier than Chrome) has been that it adds a lot of scary entries in the Resource Monitor App, but doesn't impact my day-to-day use on my 16 Gb M1 MBP. With Safari, on the other hand, I've experienced audio stutter and delays when using resource intensive wep-apps like YouTube, Figma, Netflix and others.
- meindnoch 2y ago
  YouTube and Netflix are resource intensive webapps? What is so resource intensive about them? A <video> element?
  - f_devd 2y ago
    Not for YouTube, but Netflix DRM possibly?
    - meindnoch 2y ago
      You think DRM is implemented in software? :D
  - abhinavk 2y ago
    Widevine DRM for Netflix. AV1 decoding and the SPA for YouTube.
    - Hamuko 2y ago
      Apple's M3 has AV1 hardware decoding, so I imagine that shouldn't be a massive issue in the future.
    - microtonal 2y ago

threeseed 2y ago

[flagged]

arccy 2y ago
if anything safari is IE 2.0: stagnating / holding back web platform evolution and forced onto you by the OS vendor
- frizlab 2y ago
  https://wpt.fyi/interop-2024?stable https://wpt.fyi/interop-2024?stable Just because something works in chrom(ium) does not mean it should work on “the web.”
  - mdhb 2y ago
    https://wpt.fyi/results/ https://wpt.fyi/results/ Safari has more than double the number of standards tests that fail in their browser alone than anyone else. They are stupidly behind where they should be and intentionally did their best to cripple the web platform as a viable app platform to iOS.
    - frizlab 2y ago
      Given the standards are basically written because of chrom(ium) features I fail to see how that’s surprising. Firefox, which is literally a browser company, has twice as tests failings compared to chrome. Yes, Safari has more failures, but I would not call it “stupidly behind.” Safari is a decent browser and works well (I use it everyday professionally and personally and have next to no issues). EDIT: I’d like to point there are a lot of “failures” I’m glad are actually not implemented in Safari (e.g. the accelerometer API should not exist in a browser, nor should the API to make my device vibrate, etc.).
      - mdhb 2y ago
        It’s the least capable browser on the market with the highest number of bugs by a huge margin and produced by the richest company in the world. It’s not by any reasonable standard a decent browser judged against its peers. They do less and they do it worse but with more people than Firefox at least.

servus45678981 2y ago

Atleast there is Safari. Safari is without a doubt better than Chrome - with Efficiency, Simplicity and Privacy. Chrome is spyware and bloated; even more than Chromium lmao

threeseed 2y ago
The problem is with Chromium. They recklessly add any random API with very little thought given to privacy and security. Which is why advertisers have been able to create browser fingerprinting that can be close to 99% accurate. All cheered on by fools who think Safari and Firefox are stagnant by being more careful and pushing for standards.
- PlutoIsAPlanet 2y ago
  > little thought given to privacy and security They do think about privacy, they just want you to have none.
- wil421 2y ago
  Isn’t this all by design? Google’s not going to take Apple-like steps to stop tracking and fingerprinting.

Someone 2y ago

> Apple has crippled iPadOS and consumers need the EU to force Apple to make moves that actually benefits the consumer I won’t go into whether that’s true, but I don’t think the EU has any objection against companies selling (or attempting to sell) bad products. The EU is acting because they think companies effectively do not have the choice of going around Apple to reach their customers, and that is limiting competition.

Seanambers 2y ago
[flagged]
- cesaref 2y ago
  linux
  - rijoja 2y ago
    arm
- piva00 2y ago
  You like to beat this drum, it's not the first time I read it coming from your username but... It's not the reality, while you ignore companies like Ericsson and ASLM providing basic tenets for high-end manufacturing of network equipment and chips. ARM used to be in the EU until Brexit. No, there are no flashy Amazons, Googles or Apples (or more frivolous and damaging stuff like AirBnbs, Ubers, etc.) from the EU but that doesn't mean it has lost the hardware and software dimension, if you meant "consumer hardware/software" I could give you a little more credit but since you've been beating the same dead horse for a long while on your anti-EU comments in HN it's pretty hard to start any meaningful conversation to understand your point of view. You don't like the EU, that's ok, just try to bring more meaningful arguments than this childish us-vs-them that seems to crop up from you quite constantly when Europe is talked about around here.
  - emjoes1 2y ago

Khaine 2y ago

Most people just want to browse websites, they don't want an OS in a web browser running on their OS. Web developers love chrome because it's turning the web browser into the lowest common denominator operating system. It's a terrible idea. I want native apps, I hate web-apps, I hate Electron apps. They all have UI tweaks that don't fit in with native apps, are typically slower and more bloated. But because most web developers are useless, its all that is ever built these days.

makeitdouble 2y ago
> they don't want an OS in a web browser running on their OS. IMHO that ship has sailed. With the current state of the web, what JS needs to do and what it needs access to, any mainstream web browser needs to become an OS in all shape and form. Managing Skype or Zoom on the web is so far away from displaying Craiglist 20 years ago, and users sure want to be able to open a link and interact with the service without having to download an app. And this acceleration in web "pages" becoming full fledge apps is of course partly caused by Apple and its control on what can and cannot be distributed in the AppStore and middlemanning all payments. And god forbid to have multiple versions of the same app with different users for instance.
- Khaine 2y ago
  Sure, but I don't want a web-app to be able to send me push notifications (all I've ever seen it used by is stupid websites sending what amounts to SPAM), or vibrate my device, or use the accelerometer. ~80% of web usage is looking at web-sites, and most of them are already a bloated mess of JS. If anything, the web would be much better if more sites were like craigslist. That ~20% is not worth the cost in terms of privacy, security, complexity, battery usage. I would rather a native app, or use a competing service that provides one.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    You don't want that, but people are looking at gmail or google calendar on the web, and notifications are a huge QOL. Getting access to the accelerometer feels niche, but accessing the NFC chip, phone contacts, the camera or real time locations would be more common. Dealing with the security and privacy aspects of those would be enough to get near the complexity of an OS. And to note...looking at the facebook app for instance, being native doesn't seem to be a protection from bloat, it will there either way. On the web as a static thing, sure 80% of the web is fine as a static information. The 20% on the other hand are things we care a lot about, and I personally hate the "why don't you install our app?" prompt on every damn site. Reddit is the poster child of this, and god no I don't want their native app. To each their own I guess.

whywhywhywhy 2y ago

Safari has it's issues but Chrome isn't the pinnacle anymore, it's clear an enshitification is happening from the team who works on the wrapper UI. - Dark patterns to trick you into Google Pay - Those stupid sign in with your Google account dialogs you can't disable and make the website input glitch in weird ways, steal focus and I don't think they can even be dismissed with esc. - The "Lens" sidebar - Bimonthly popups about "themes" and "Ad Topics" dark patterns - Copying console.logs is now broken in weird ways as of a few updates ago

oaiey 2y ago
Chrome is worth a separate investigation from the EU and others. Chrome is massively layer breaching with Google Service. There is a reason why chrome comes as Chrome and as Edge. Because both companies add stuff which no one wants there on top while cooperating on the thing we really want (the HTML, JS, engine). I should really find a fork which is focused on not adding on top.
- crashmat 2y ago
  isn't this ungoogled chromium? Or base chromium?

dwb 2y ago

> Safari is just a piece of junk ? I'm absolutely for Apple opening up to allow other browsers, but for me Safari is at least fine. I use it for preference on macOS too, it's very resource-efficient.

kgdiem 2y ago

I use Safari on desktop and mobile particularly because private browsing doesn’t share sessions between tabs/windows whereas chrome does. Somewhat niche yes but I loathe chrome for that behavior. Is there a way to turn that off? > Most developers put the majority of their effort to optimising their apps for the web and the best extensions are made for Chrome on desktop Also, I’m guilty of this as a safari user, lol. My extension is available on Chrome + ForeFox but it’s too much of a pain to make a free extension for safari.

est31 2y ago

> and the best extensions are made for Chrome on desktop. Note that Chrome on Android doesn't support extensions either, especially no adblockers. > People are voting and the vast majority like and chose to install Chrome Is it really users voting when Chrome is the only browser that works with some websites? Apple is the only thing standing in Chrome's way of becoming a global browser monopoly. The last time this has happened it was devastating for the web. The web is also way smaller than it is now.

chongli 2y ago

I happen to like Safari quite a lot (battery life, clean, fast/responsive UI, no shilling of Google services). I am dismayed at the direction Apple is heading as a company and I don't at all care for the way they market computing as a luxury product. What frustrates me the most though is how aggressive and pervasive all the big tech companies have become. Attempts to regulate one seem to benefit another. In this case, regulations to force Apple to open up their platform walled gardens will primarily benefit Google and Meta. On the other hand, the regulations to rein in the latter companies (GDPR) seem to have largely failed and only serve to widen their moats with barriers to entry. It honestly feels like we've spawned a multi-headed hydra and it's only going to grow more heads (LLMs?) as regulators struggle to keep up. Does anyone have any different ideas on how to solve this?

ejmatta 2y ago

> Most developers put the majority of their effort to optimising their apps for the web and the best extensions are made for Chrome on desktop. You're changing one monopoly for another in the name of convenience. This is the wrong way to think. We have Firefox and Safari for a good reason, and should support them as to not make another IE.

r00fus 2y ago

> Safari is just a piece of junk. Where does it fall down? Some of the later RFPs for web technology (bluetooth, battery level, etc) aren't supported but I think I agree more with Apple than some random web-app developer. Chrome is the new IE. Forget that.

thiht 2y ago

> Safari is just a piece of junk This hasn't been true for a few years. When I bought my first iPhone a few years ago (the iPhone 12 in 2020), Safari indeed was a piece of junk. But starting the very next iteration cycle (iOS 14 or 15 I think) they fixed almost all the issues I had with it (tons of bugs, including rendering issues on some sites, but also quality of life features, like moving the URL bar at the bottom). At first I used Safari because there was no other choice, today I use it because it's a decent browser and doesn't drain battery too much. Even if Firefox with Gecko or Chrome with Blink were available, I would stick with Safari.

sillyfluke 2y ago
If the browser release process and scheduling sucks, from a practical standpoint the browser also sucks. I have a M1 laptop and one-before-last iphone SE that cannot open a ticketing website from a major global airline on Safari without an OS update. Irony being I can open the same website on all chromium browsers and firefox without an OS update. If this is not a completely broken experience, I don't know what is.
- wappieslurkz 2y ago
  The fact that site doesn't work on Safari but does on other browsers doesn't have to mean it's Safari that's bugging out here, it could just be junk code they developed while only testing on all those browsers -except Safari- until it worked on those. Not a Safari issue in that case.
  - sillyfluke 2y ago
    I think you are completely missing my point here. The website works on the Safari that comes with the latest OS. I can't update the Safari version without updating the OS with a 14GB update. Nevermind the extremely annoying hassle of having to backup the devices before the updates "just in case". I don't have to do that for any non-Apple browser while using the same Apple laptop. [0] I think it was the late and great Joe Armstrong who said, in a tongue-in-cheek remark on object oriented programming, "You want a banana, but to get the banana you need the gorilla holding the banana and the [goddamn] rain forest it lives in." (brackets might be my frustrated addition.) [0] there were other websites that would work seamlessly on other browsers but would throw security errors that disappeared after the OS update, including an email provider that is regular posted about on HN.

cassianoleal 2y ago

I will choose Safari over Chrome any day. My main browser is Firefox, with Safari second. I don't have Chrome installed on any of my devices, and will stay away from it until the unfortunate day when Chrome is finally exactly synonymous with the Web. What I want from my iPad is to be able to dual-boot into macOS. Everything else are small steps with the intent of postponing the ability to run a full-blown OS on the device. Incidentally, you can run Chrome on the iPad if it can run macOS.

moi2388 2y ago

What are you talking about? Safari is much better than chrome. Less spyware, MUCH faster, great customization, great tab/history sharing, better caching and much lower resource usage. Literally the only problem is lack of thirdparty apps, but apart from a great downloader and adblocker I don’t really need much. I don’t even want alternative stores, now my mother can download unverified apps from shady sources, before that was too difficult for her to do.

thedrbrian 2y ago

> doesn't have to compete with Google If chrome/google is so good then why aren’t people buying pixels for it? Why does google need the EU to break iPadOS?

switch007 2y ago

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