8 ms·

Ozempic costs $1000/month (in the US) but $5/month to manufacture [0]. I think if this drug and others are to have a significant anti-consumption effect on othe

Ozempic costs $1000/month (in the US) but $5/month to manufacture [0]. I think if this drug and others are to have a significant anti-consumption effect on other companies it needs to be vastly more accessible, which first requires more accessible healthcare in the US, which is unlikely to happen. Also it's an injection, which raises the barrier. If drugs like these become orally administered and over-the-counter, then yeah, I'd be more confident that it could have a positive effect. But currently, it looks like a drug that few can access/afford in the US. [0] https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-statement-on-outrageous-cost-of-ozempic/ https://www.sanders.senate.gov/press-releases/news-sanders-s...

pain_perdu 2y ago
Rybelsus is an oral version of semaglutide which has good efficacy.
01100011 2y ago
Plenty of ongoing research into orally active analogs and cheaper variants. Give it a year or two.
jakub_g 2y ago
In worst case, Ozempic patents expire in 2031, which is not that far.
- kgwgk 2y ago
  The worst case is worse than that: in addition to composition of matter patents there are dosage patents that can be invoked. https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/novo-nordisk-patent-semaglutide-invalid-viatris-request-uspto-will-review https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/novo-nordisk-patent-sema...
  - voisin 2y ago
    I am not familiar with pharma patents. Are you saying, for example, a 300ml dose could have a patent with different expiry than a 400ml dose? I could see patenting mechanism of delivery, like injections versus oral, but not the example above.
    - knappe 2y ago
      Pharma is notorious for changing the formulation just enough to acquire a new patent to restart the clock. I wouldn't be surprised if the dosage was a factor in the process.
      - ec109685 2y ago
        That doesn’t mean the existing drug can’t be sold as a generic.
        kgwgk 2y ago
        Sometimes it means exactly that: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4968089/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4968089/ Of course you could still sell the same drug if you get it approved with a different dosage but that is a long and costly process.
        ec109685 2y ago
        That still presupposes a new patent with new dosage. In this case, is there a dosage patent on ozempic’s current dosage? If manufacturers tweak ozempic’s current dose and get a patent, what’s to stop the existing dosage from being made by generics?
        knappe 2y ago
        I really don't think you're being skeptical enough. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/gaming-us-patent-system-keeping-drug-prices-sky-high-report-says-rcna47507 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/gaming-us-patent-...
s1k3s 2y ago
> As Chairman of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP), I am calling on Novo Nordisk to lower the list price of Ozempic – and the related drug Wegovy – in America to no more than what they charge for this drug in Canada. I'm not aware of how legislation works in US but I feel like a senator should have more power than just "calling on" a company?
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  They do, they can propose and vote on legislation. And some budgetary and people nominating powers.
  - anjel 2y ago
    1000 a month per patients will handily fund an awful lot of high priced lobbyists. Such congressional proclamations are arguably just a clarion call to K Street
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    that seems unconstitutional and also terrible precedent to set. why do any research if you can just piggyback on others?
- SolarNet 2y ago
  Eh, calling on a company to do a thing is some mix between public fact finding and threat here. It allows the public to comment and maybe the senator will like the public support they are getting. Alternatively a pharma lobbyist will show up and toss them a few hundred thousand in campaign contribution promises. And they'll weight the relative value of those things. Depending on how that goes they (or another senator seeing this play out) will actually make an issue of it and it will start the more formal processes.
- DiabloD3 2y ago
  He is asking them, using the official power of his office, to do the right thing so legislation doesn't need to be drafted. Either they choose to do the right thing today and not be subject to regulations, or they can get punished with regulations at some point in the future. If you think things happen differently in Canada, you don't understand how the sausage is made.
adam_arthur 2y ago
You can buy pharmacy compounded semaglutide through online portals, e.g. Ro It's $450/month out of pocket (no insurance coverage) Therefor, there will actually be price competition and we should see pretty cheap prices in the coming years. I'm not sure exactly why pharmacies are free to compound it independently. I guess whatever patents exist on Ozempic/Wegovy etc aren't sufficient to squash competition. The $1000/month for Ozempic is purely a name brand markup. I'd guess we'll see prices closer to $100/month for the compounded variants within a few years
- glp1guide 2y ago
  There are dangers/risks to buying pharmacy compounded semaglutide -- not really a great thing to recommend widely. It's hard to depend on whatever pharmacy people might be able to find locally or through some hopefully trustworthy portal. That said, with China and more notably India entering the GLP1 RA race, there will be much cheaper options very soon, hopefully!
  - CPLX 2y ago
    Can you articulate those dangers? Compounding is a well developed means of sourcing drugs and GLP has been around for decades. What specifically should people be mindful of?
    - glp1guide 2y ago
      Well quality of the compounder/pharmacy is the real issue here -- of course it's not that the process itself is flawed, more that it's basically impossible for a layman consumer to inspect/assess quality/safety.
      - lamontcg 2y ago
        How does the layman consumer inspect/assess the quality/safety of other drugs or really any other substance that they ingest?
Spooky23 2y ago
There’s a pill form called Rybelsus that works similarly, but has some gotchas. Namely you need to take with water when you wake up and eat nothing for 30m. From a lifetime value perspective, I think it’s priced cheap. This drug is a miracle drug and is going to eliminate a lot of suffering and healthcare costs.
- EPWN3D 2y ago
  That sounds pretty great! I adopted intermittent fasting this year, so I skip breakfast anyway.
EugeneOZ 2y ago
Rybelsus is available in tablets and costs €130 in Spain.
- ein0p 2y ago
  $947 in the US, LOL.
cpitman 2y ago
Currently they cannot manufacture enough to cover demand at $1000/ month. Why would the price come down before they can supply current demand?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Why would the price come down before they can supply current demand? Because in exchange they could unlock a bulk order from e.g. the U.S. government. That in turn could unlock economies of scale that let them price competitors out of the market.
  - voisin 2y ago
    > price competitors out of the market Are there competitors or are they under patent protection?
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    The govt has already subsidized production through investing in research they've leveraged.
    - Fredej 2y ago
      I mean sort of, maybe. It's a danish company, that's already the largest contributor to research, also from a grant perspective. The Novo Nordisk Foundation is supplying research grants at like 5 times of the size of the danish government. And that's without taking into account the grants and research done by Novo Nordisk, the company itself.
  - red_trumpet 2y ago
    Don't they have a patent which makes competition non-existent for the near future?
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      There are multiple formulations, e.g. Ozempic vs Wegovy.
jncfhnb 2y ago
I’m reminded of the bit in 1984 where they’re trying to remove the pleasure from orgasms. I don’t entirely disagree that this would be good to make accessible but removing the joy from eating is so bleak
- prepend 2y ago
  Ozempic doesn’t remove the joy from eating. It just makes you eat much less. If anything it leads to eating less of really amazing food. Think enjoying tasting menus instead of double baconators.
- abruzzi 2y ago
  It doesn't remove the joy, just the need. The first thing I noticed after starting is I wasn't hungry all the time. That constant sense of hunger made me eat when I didn't need to. Now I can eat a nice meal, but much of the time I don't feel a need to eat, so I don't. Edit just to add that in 10 months I've lost 40lbs and halved my insulin usage. That insulin is the pricy synthetic stuff (Tresiba and Novolog), so the cost of the mounjaro is probably close to paid for by that decrease.
  - jokethrowaway 2y ago
    You get the same effect when you go zero carbs
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    Is that really true? Everyone I’ve talked to has suggested they don’t really enjoy high reward food anymore and so they end up eating healthier. In part because nutritious food tastes comparatively better.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  only while administered. this is a feature, not a bug some people need the kick start to experience the effects of a healthy living
robert2020 2y ago
Money to be made. Competitors will enter the market. Oral options will be come eventually. Prices will drop. Don’t distort the natural market with price controls. You’ll get less product options and higher costs. With all the obesity, this is going to be a gravy train.
- krainboltgreene 2y ago
  > Prices will drop This seems incredibly optimistic considering all of pharmaceutical history in the united states.
hackernewds 2y ago
This reasoning is valid if the first pill costs $10B
surfingdino 2y ago
People will pay for it even if it was a sharp-ended, spiked suppository made out of powdered Carolina Reaper. Because they believe it makes you look "good".
wilg 2y ago
Zepbound is $550/mo with the manufacturer coupon without insurance.
tssva 2y ago
Ozempic is the injectable version of semaglutide. Rybelsus is the orally administered form. It has been available for several years but isn’t as effective as the injection. Eli Lilly who makes the Ozempic rival Mounjaro is in late stages of clinical trials for their oral GLP-1 medication.
Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago
The fact that its $1000/month only increases its anti-consumption effects because people will have that much less each month to spend on alcholol/candy/cigarettes....

pain_perdu 2y ago

Rybelsus is an oral version of semaglutide which has good efficacy.

01100011 2y ago

Plenty of ongoing research into orally active analogs and cheaper variants. Give it a year or two.

jakub_g 2y ago

In worst case, Ozempic patents expire in 2031, which is not that far.

kgwgk 2y ago
The worst case is worse than that: in addition to composition of matter patents there are dosage patents that can be invoked. https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/novo-nordisk-patent-semaglutide-invalid-viatris-request-uspto-will-review https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/novo-nordisk-patent-sema...
- voisin 2y ago
  I am not familiar with pharma patents. Are you saying, for example, a 300ml dose could have a patent with different expiry than a 400ml dose? I could see patenting mechanism of delivery, like injections versus oral, but not the example above.
  - knappe 2y ago
    Pharma is notorious for changing the formulation just enough to acquire a new patent to restart the clock. I wouldn't be surprised if the dosage was a factor in the process.
    - ec109685 2y ago
      That doesn’t mean the existing drug can’t be sold as a generic.
      - kgwgk 2y ago
        Sometimes it means exactly that: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4968089/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4968089/ Of course you could still sell the same drug if you get it approved with a different dosage but that is a long and costly process.
        ec109685 2y ago
        That still presupposes a new patent with new dosage. In this case, is there a dosage patent on ozempic’s current dosage? If manufacturers tweak ozempic’s current dose and get a patent, what’s to stop the existing dosage from being made by generics?
        knappe 2y ago
        I really don't think you're being skeptical enough. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/gaming-us-patent-system-keeping-drug-prices-sky-high-report-says-rcna47507 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/gaming-us-patent-...

s1k3s 2y ago

> As Chairman of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP), I am calling on Novo Nordisk to lower the list price of Ozempic – and the related drug Wegovy – in America to no more than what they charge for this drug in Canada. I'm not aware of how legislation works in US but I feel like a senator should have more power than just "calling on" a company?

lotsofpulp 2y ago
They do, they can propose and vote on legislation. And some budgetary and people nominating powers.
- anjel 2y ago
  1000 a month per patients will handily fund an awful lot of high priced lobbyists. Such congressional proclamations are arguably just a clarion call to K Street
- hackernewds 2y ago
  that seems unconstitutional and also terrible precedent to set. why do any research if you can just piggyback on others?
SolarNet 2y ago
Eh, calling on a company to do a thing is some mix between public fact finding and threat here. It allows the public to comment and maybe the senator will like the public support they are getting. Alternatively a pharma lobbyist will show up and toss them a few hundred thousand in campaign contribution promises. And they'll weight the relative value of those things. Depending on how that goes they (or another senator seeing this play out) will actually make an issue of it and it will start the more formal processes.
DiabloD3 2y ago
He is asking them, using the official power of his office, to do the right thing so legislation doesn't need to be drafted. Either they choose to do the right thing today and not be subject to regulations, or they can get punished with regulations at some point in the future. If you think things happen differently in Canada, you don't understand how the sausage is made.

adam_arthur 2y ago

You can buy pharmacy compounded semaglutide through online portals, e.g. Ro It's $450/month out of pocket (no insurance coverage) Therefor, there will actually be price competition and we should see pretty cheap prices in the coming years. I'm not sure exactly why pharmacies are free to compound it independently. I guess whatever patents exist on Ozempic/Wegovy etc aren't sufficient to squash competition. The $1000/month for Ozempic is purely a name brand markup. I'd guess we'll see prices closer to $100/month for the compounded variants within a few years

glp1guide 2y ago
There are dangers/risks to buying pharmacy compounded semaglutide -- not really a great thing to recommend widely. It's hard to depend on whatever pharmacy people might be able to find locally or through some hopefully trustworthy portal. That said, with China and more notably India entering the GLP1 RA race, there will be much cheaper options very soon, hopefully!
- CPLX 2y ago
  Can you articulate those dangers? Compounding is a well developed means of sourcing drugs and GLP has been around for decades. What specifically should people be mindful of?
  - glp1guide 2y ago
    Well quality of the compounder/pharmacy is the real issue here -- of course it's not that the process itself is flawed, more that it's basically impossible for a layman consumer to inspect/assess quality/safety.
    - lamontcg 2y ago
      How does the layman consumer inspect/assess the quality/safety of other drugs or really any other substance that they ingest?

Spooky23 2y ago

There’s a pill form called Rybelsus that works similarly, but has some gotchas. Namely you need to take with water when you wake up and eat nothing for 30m. From a lifetime value perspective, I think it’s priced cheap. This drug is a miracle drug and is going to eliminate a lot of suffering and healthcare costs.

EPWN3D 2y ago
That sounds pretty great! I adopted intermittent fasting this year, so I skip breakfast anyway.

EugeneOZ 2y ago

Rybelsus is available in tablets and costs €130 in Spain.

ein0p 2y ago
$947 in the US, LOL.

cpitman 2y ago

Currently they cannot manufacture enough to cover demand at $1000/ month. Why would the price come down before they can supply current demand?

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Why would the price come down before they can supply current demand? Because in exchange they could unlock a bulk order from e.g. the U.S. government. That in turn could unlock economies of scale that let them price competitors out of the market.
- voisin 2y ago
  > price competitors out of the market Are there competitors or are they under patent protection?
- hackernewds 2y ago
  The govt has already subsidized production through investing in research they've leveraged.
  - Fredej 2y ago
    I mean sort of, maybe. It's a danish company, that's already the largest contributor to research, also from a grant perspective. The Novo Nordisk Foundation is supplying research grants at like 5 times of the size of the danish government. And that's without taking into account the grants and research done by Novo Nordisk, the company itself.
- red_trumpet 2y ago
  Don't they have a patent which makes competition non-existent for the near future?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    There are multiple formulations, e.g. Ozempic vs Wegovy.

jncfhnb 2y ago

I’m reminded of the bit in 1984 where they’re trying to remove the pleasure from orgasms. I don’t entirely disagree that this would be good to make accessible but removing the joy from eating is so bleak

prepend 2y ago
Ozempic doesn’t remove the joy from eating. It just makes you eat much less. If anything it leads to eating less of really amazing food. Think enjoying tasting menus instead of double baconators.
abruzzi 2y ago
It doesn't remove the joy, just the need. The first thing I noticed after starting is I wasn't hungry all the time. That constant sense of hunger made me eat when I didn't need to. Now I can eat a nice meal, but much of the time I don't feel a need to eat, so I don't. Edit just to add that in 10 months I've lost 40lbs and halved my insulin usage. That insulin is the pricy synthetic stuff (Tresiba and Novolog), so the cost of the mounjaro is probably close to paid for by that decrease.
- jokethrowaway 2y ago
  You get the same effect when you go zero carbs
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Is that really true? Everyone I’ve talked to has suggested they don’t really enjoy high reward food anymore and so they end up eating healthier. In part because nutritious food tastes comparatively better.
hackernewds 2y ago
only while administered. this is a feature, not a bug some people need the kick start to experience the effects of a healthy living

robert2020 2y ago

Money to be made. Competitors will enter the market. Oral options will be come eventually. Prices will drop. Don’t distort the natural market with price controls. You’ll get less product options and higher costs. With all the obesity, this is going to be a gravy train.

krainboltgreene 2y ago
> Prices will drop This seems incredibly optimistic considering all of pharmaceutical history in the united states.

hackernewds 2y ago

This reasoning is valid if the first pill costs $10B

surfingdino 2y ago

People will pay for it even if it was a sharp-ended, spiked suppository made out of powdered Carolina Reaper. Because they believe it makes you look "good".

wilg 2y ago

Zepbound is $550/mo with the manufacturer coupon without insurance.

tssva 2y ago

Ozempic is the injectable version of semaglutide. Rybelsus is the orally administered form. It has been available for several years but isn’t as effective as the injection. Eli Lilly who makes the Ozempic rival Mounjaro is in late stages of clinical trials for their oral GLP-1 medication.

Eddy_Viscosity2 2y ago

The fact that its $1000/month only increases its anti-consumption effects because people will have that much less each month to spend on alcholol/candy/cigarettes....