4 ms·

Nobody seems to have commented on the surveillance aspect? I would assume contactless payments are easier to surveil compared to paper tickets, similar to cash

Nobody seems to have commented on the surveillance aspect? I would assume contactless payments are easier to surveil compared to paper tickets, similar to cash vs credit card payments.

lpribis 2y ago
You can get contactless PAYG prices without any identification in London by using an Oyster card. You can buy them from corner shops without ID, and top them up at the same places with cash. I doubt this really affords you any extra anonymity though. Tube and rail stations are so heavily covered by CCTV, and the police have many times tracked peoples entire commutes and movement through CCTV only.
- cwillu 2y ago
  Although somebody used to have to actually sit down and comb through the footage to do that. Although not so much these days, so that point is moot.
- eesmith 2y ago
  To hinder traffic analysis across multiple trips, you should also have meeting where you swap Oystercards with others, similar to how people would (and still do?) swap grocery purchase tracker cards with each other, to get the discount with less surveillance.
  - fullspectrumdev 2y ago
    I used to do this with a few people. The system breaks down when one guy stops topping up their card knowing they can be a prick about it :)
GlacierFox 2y ago
I think it's because it's the most obvious assumption you could make in this regard so it goes without saying :S
robjan 2y ago
The article says that most people were buying paper tickets with cards anyway
- masfuerte 2y ago
  The magnetic stripe tickets don't have a unique ID so your journey can't be tracked.
  - dvdkon 2y ago
    Are you sure? If they don't have unique IDs, they can be easily duplicated.
    - masfuerte 2y ago
      It's 1970s tech. Even if they had given them unique codes, they had no way of catching duplicates. The magnetic stripe has a very limited amount of storage space and, as far as I know, it's all used for other necessary information. It also explains why the rail operators are moving to QR codes on paper tickets, which are in every respect worse. (They are absurdly large tickets and take much longer to scan at the barrier, creating queues.)
ianburrell 2y ago
You buy paper tickets at kiosk where camera can get close-up view of your face. Cameras can also you track when using the ticket at barrier. Also, contactless prepaid cards can be anonymous if don’t register them or attach to credit card filling with cash. Can even swap them around with other people.

Nobody seems to have commented on the surveillance aspect? I would assume contactless payments are easier to surveil compared to paper tickets, similar to cash vs credit card payments.

lpribis 2y ago

You can get contactless PAYG prices without any identification in London by using an Oyster card. You can buy them from corner shops without ID, and top them up at the same places with cash. I doubt this really affords you any extra anonymity though. Tube and rail stations are so heavily covered by CCTV, and the police have many times tracked peoples entire commutes and movement through CCTV only.

cwillu 2y ago
Although somebody used to have to actually sit down and comb through the footage to do that. Although not so much these days, so that point is moot.
eesmith 2y ago
To hinder traffic analysis across multiple trips, you should also have meeting where you swap Oystercards with others, similar to how people would (and still do?) swap grocery purchase tracker cards with each other, to get the discount with less surveillance.
- fullspectrumdev 2y ago
  I used to do this with a few people. The system breaks down when one guy stops topping up their card knowing they can be a prick about it :)

GlacierFox 2y ago

I think it's because it's the most obvious assumption you could make in this regard so it goes without saying :S

robjan 2y ago

The article says that most people were buying paper tickets with cards anyway

masfuerte 2y ago
The magnetic stripe tickets don't have a unique ID so your journey can't be tracked.
- dvdkon 2y ago
  Are you sure? If they don't have unique IDs, they can be easily duplicated.
  - masfuerte 2y ago
    It's 1970s tech. Even if they had given them unique codes, they had no way of catching duplicates. The magnetic stripe has a very limited amount of storage space and, as far as I know, it's all used for other necessary information. It also explains why the rail operators are moving to QR codes on paper tickets, which are in every respect worse. (They are absurdly large tickets and take much longer to scan at the barrier, creating queues.)

ianburrell 2y ago

You buy paper tickets at kiosk where camera can get close-up view of your face. Cameras can also you track when using the ticket at barrier. Also, contactless prepaid cards can be anonymous if don’t register them or attach to credit card filling with cash. Can even swap them around with other people.