6 ms·

This effective solution has been in use for a number of years now in cities throughout Czechia, Poland, Romania, Estonia and probably many others around Europe.

This effective solution has been in use for a number of years now in cities throughout Czechia, Poland, Romania, Estonia and probably many others around Europe. I wish we could see a faster uptake of this approach in Ireland.

felsokning 2y ago
Agreed. We need the contactless payment scheme. For what its worth, you can use Leap for Bus Eireann and other services[1]. I think Irish Rail (excluding the Free Travel Scheme[2]) is the hold-out, in rural areas, as Bus Eireann and Irish Rail are the only services available in those areas. While not the contactless payment scheme inferred from the article, it would still be a viable alternative to paper tickets. [1] - https://www.transportforireland.ie/fares/leap-card/ https://www.transportforireland.ie/fares/leap-card/ [2] - https://www.gov.ie/en/service/9bba61-free-travel-scheme/ https://www.gov.ie/en/service/9bba61-free-travel-scheme/ Edit: formatting
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Where would you tap? I used to live near Clara train station in Offaly and there I just... walked on the train. I suppose they could add readers, of course.
  - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    I thought they'd added the gates to all the stations? Certainly I see them a lot, even though they're generally open in more rural areas.
    - cianmm 2y ago
      In Farrenfore you just get on the train. It’s a toss up on whether anybody will check your ticket on your journey to Dublin.
      - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Huh, wow. Like you can just walk on at Mallow, but they do have the gates if you need to tap.
        rsynnott 2y ago
        Mallow is in the Cork commuter zone; you can use a leap card there. The issue is more around stations where you currently can’t use a leap card at all.
        disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Actually, I guess I haven't stopped anywhere that isn't in a commuter zone, so it makes sense that I wasn't aware of this.
  - seabass-labrax 2y ago
    Such contactless readers are the norm in the Netherlands. There are no ticket gates; it is still an honesty system, but one is expected to tap on before you board the train. They are sensibly located near the station entrance, so you also don't need to make a detour to find them.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      Sounds nice! I've been caught on the wrong side of the barrier at Hilversum a few times due to malfunctioning gates, etc
      - seabass-labrax 2y ago
        Apparently there are some stations which still have ticket gates, but I haven't seen any in the rather short time I've been in the Netherlands - they seem to be concentrated in metropolitan areas[1], and I've only been in the somewhat more rural[2] province of Limburg. As it happens, though, I have never actually used the OV-chipcard myself, as I always use an Interrail pass when travelling any further than Belgium from my home country of Britain. I just get on the train - even more reason to like the 'gateless' platforms, because it's always the people with less usual tickets like Interrail that fall through the cracks with systems that try to be too clever. [1]: https://www.ns.nl/binaries/_ht_1583338071691/content/assets/ns-nl/stationsinformatie/stations-met-gesloten-poortjes.pdf https://www.ns.nl/binaries/_ht_1583338071691/content/assets/... [2]: https://mastodon.social/@rubenivangaalen/109705862906000821 https://mastodon.social/@rubenivangaalen/109705862906000821
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Just readers on poles; smaller potentially unattended Dublin and Cork commuter zone stations have them. Same thing as used at Luas stops.
oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
I've been using contactless for the majority of UK train and tube travel for many years now. Phone is most convenient, but adds a significant stress factor!
- drexlspivey 2y ago
  You can also setup “Express mode” in Apple Pay that works with TFL. You don’t have to unlock your phone/watch or press anything you just scan it and it works (like a physical card) https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-pay/transport/ https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-pay/transport/
  - oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
    It works when the phone is out of battery? This is the use case that makes it difficult for me (for the record, I don't have an Apple phone either)
    - drexlspivey 2y ago
      Yes it does, it says so in the link
      - tialaramex 2y ago
        No, it will work on power reserve, but it won't (logistically can't) work when you have literally run out. This ought to be incredibly rare, but if you actually do literally run out of battery (not just it gets to the last few percent) then this technology doesn't work, whereas your bank cards do.
        mjlee 2y ago
        To clarify, power reserve works when your phone has run out of power to the point where it has shut itself off.
        taylortbb 2y ago
avianlyric 2y ago
You maybe interested to know the TfL were the first metro system to use this system, they actually developed most of the technology themselves, and now sell it to a number of other cities.
- kmlx 2y ago
  here’s another fun fact: TfL turned on contactless payments for all their stations without any apparent changes in their user facing hardware. one day the same oyster card reader started accepting contactless payments. i’m sure it was not as simple as turning on a switch but it looked that way :)
Asraelite 2y ago
Yes, but it will inevitably lead to paper tickets being removed completely, which has already happened in some places. That is an absolute nightmare both in terms of privacy and in terms of ceding power to the credit card duopoly. For the same reason that we need cash, we need to keep paper tickets at least as an option. I'm surprised the sentiment in this thread is so strongly in favor of cards; normally HN is a bit more cash-friendly.
- vidarh 2y ago
  You can buy an Oyster card and top it up with cash.
  - zeristor 2y ago
    I believe Oyster cards are to be retired in due course
    - ghaff 2y ago
      It seems that you need some way for people without credit cards to pay and the OP is about TfL trying to get away from cash for paper tickets.
    - dotnet00 2y ago
      That sounds like a bad idea, considering that children and tourists are very likely to not have a credit card (or at least not necessarily a compatible one).
      - vidarh 2y ago
        I think the tourists argument is rapidly fally, but not children (though they are available in the UK via providers like Go Henry). Credit/debit cards also won't solve the season-ticket issue.
    - vidarh 2y ago
      I'm not aware of any plans to do so, not least because while cards have overtaken Oyster for pay as you go, Oyster season tickets / travel cards still remains a very significant use case. As do free / discounted children Oyster cards. Neither has a credit/debit-card based viable solution at present that'd be tolerable.

felsokning 2y ago

Agreed. We need the contactless payment scheme. For what its worth, you can use Leap for Bus Eireann and other services[1]. I think Irish Rail (excluding the Free Travel Scheme[2]) is the hold-out, in rural areas, as Bus Eireann and Irish Rail are the only services available in those areas. While not the contactless payment scheme inferred from the article, it would still be a viable alternative to paper tickets. [1] - https://www.transportforireland.ie/fares/leap-card/ https://www.transportforireland.ie/fares/leap-card/ [2] - https://www.gov.ie/en/service/9bba61-free-travel-scheme/ https://www.gov.ie/en/service/9bba61-free-travel-scheme/ Edit: formatting

CalRobert 2y ago
Where would you tap? I used to live near Clara train station in Offaly and there I just... walked on the train. I suppose they could add readers, of course.
- disgruntledphd2 2y ago
  I thought they'd added the gates to all the stations? Certainly I see them a lot, even though they're generally open in more rural areas.
  - cianmm 2y ago
    In Farrenfore you just get on the train. It’s a toss up on whether anybody will check your ticket on your journey to Dublin.
    - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
      Huh, wow. Like you can just walk on at Mallow, but they do have the gates if you need to tap.
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        Mallow is in the Cork commuter zone; you can use a leap card there. The issue is more around stations where you currently can’t use a leap card at all.
        disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Actually, I guess I haven't stopped anywhere that isn't in a commuter zone, so it makes sense that I wasn't aware of this.
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  Such contactless readers are the norm in the Netherlands. There are no ticket gates; it is still an honesty system, but one is expected to tap on before you board the train. They are sensibly located near the station entrance, so you also don't need to make a detour to find them.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    Sounds nice! I've been caught on the wrong side of the barrier at Hilversum a few times due to malfunctioning gates, etc
    - seabass-labrax 2y ago
      Apparently there are some stations which still have ticket gates, but I haven't seen any in the rather short time I've been in the Netherlands - they seem to be concentrated in metropolitan areas[1], and I've only been in the somewhat more rural[2] province of Limburg. As it happens, though, I have never actually used the OV-chipcard myself, as I always use an Interrail pass when travelling any further than Belgium from my home country of Britain. I just get on the train - even more reason to like the 'gateless' platforms, because it's always the people with less usual tickets like Interrail that fall through the cracks with systems that try to be too clever. [1]: https://www.ns.nl/binaries/_ht_1583338071691/content/assets/ns-nl/stationsinformatie/stations-met-gesloten-poortjes.pdf https://www.ns.nl/binaries/_ht_1583338071691/content/assets/... [2]: https://mastodon.social/@rubenivangaalen/109705862906000821 https://mastodon.social/@rubenivangaalen/109705862906000821
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Just readers on poles; smaller potentially unattended Dublin and Cork commuter zone stations have them. Same thing as used at Luas stops.

oneeyedpigeon 2y ago

I've been using contactless for the majority of UK train and tube travel for many years now. Phone is most convenient, but adds a significant stress factor!

drexlspivey 2y ago
You can also setup “Express mode” in Apple Pay that works with TFL. You don’t have to unlock your phone/watch or press anything you just scan it and it works (like a physical card) https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-pay/transport/ https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-pay/transport/
- oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
  It works when the phone is out of battery? This is the use case that makes it difficult for me (for the record, I don't have an Apple phone either)
  - drexlspivey 2y ago
    Yes it does, it says so in the link
    - tialaramex 2y ago
      No, it will work on power reserve, but it won't (logistically can't) work when you have literally run out. This ought to be incredibly rare, but if you actually do literally run out of battery (not just it gets to the last few percent) then this technology doesn't work, whereas your bank cards do.
      - mjlee 2y ago
        To clarify, power reserve works when your phone has run out of power to the point where it has shut itself off.
      - taylortbb 2y ago

avianlyric 2y ago

You maybe interested to know the TfL were the first metro system to use this system, they actually developed most of the technology themselves, and now sell it to a number of other cities.

kmlx 2y ago
here’s another fun fact: TfL turned on contactless payments for all their stations without any apparent changes in their user facing hardware. one day the same oyster card reader started accepting contactless payments. i’m sure it was not as simple as turning on a switch but it looked that way :)

Asraelite 2y ago

Yes, but it will inevitably lead to paper tickets being removed completely, which has already happened in some places. That is an absolute nightmare both in terms of privacy and in terms of ceding power to the credit card duopoly. For the same reason that we need cash, we need to keep paper tickets at least as an option. I'm surprised the sentiment in this thread is so strongly in favor of cards; normally HN is a bit more cash-friendly.

vidarh 2y ago
You can buy an Oyster card and top it up with cash.
- zeristor 2y ago
  I believe Oyster cards are to be retired in due course
  - ghaff 2y ago
    It seems that you need some way for people without credit cards to pay and the OP is about TfL trying to get away from cash for paper tickets.
  - dotnet00 2y ago
    That sounds like a bad idea, considering that children and tourists are very likely to not have a credit card (or at least not necessarily a compatible one).
    - vidarh 2y ago
      I think the tourists argument is rapidly fally, but not children (though they are available in the UK via providers like Go Henry). Credit/debit cards also won't solve the season-ticket issue.
  - vidarh 2y ago
    I'm not aware of any plans to do so, not least because while cards have overtaken Oyster for pay as you go, Oyster season tickets / travel cards still remains a very significant use case. As do free / discounted children Oyster cards. Neither has a credit/debit-card based viable solution at present that'd be tolerable.