5 ms·

Calling it a Landfill seems accurate. I just searched (on DDG) for the tap size for a 5/16-24 bolt. I got garbage like this:https://shuntool.com/article/what-s

Calling it a Landfill seems accurate. I just searched (on DDG) for the tap size for a 5/16-24 bolt. I got garbage like this:https://shuntool.com/article/what-size-drill-os-used-for-a-5-16-tap https://shuntool.com/article/what-size-drill-os-used-for-a-5... This isn't even the worst example, since it does at least have the correct info buried amongst tons of Ai generated garbage, but I can't use this for reference, since it tells me 4 different drill sizes. I've had to switch back to a paper copy of the machinist's handbook, since I can't trust the internet to give me accurate information anymore. 10 years ago, I could easily search for the clearance hole for a 10-24 fastener, now I get AI junk that I can't trust. How have we regressed to the point that I'm better off using a paper book than online charts for things that don't change?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lostlogin 2y ago
If there is any chance I’ll use some web content again, I generally copy and paste the bit I want into the notes app on iOS. You know it’s bad when you trust Apple’s search function over Google.
- aulin 2y ago
  This, I am a terrible note taker. For years a huge part my knowledge and skills relied on "if I found that information once, I'll find it again". My brain compressed the information by memorizing the path to retrieve it again. Now that does not work anymore. You know some information is out there, you found it once when google worked, now it's lost in the noise. I'm learning to take notes again and organize them so I can search them easily.
  - gofreddygo 2y ago
    Yep, i print to pdf a lot now.
tim333 2y ago
Googling "tap size for a 5/16-24 bolt" gives the drill size in the first line of the results page.
geraldwhen 2y ago
I find myself using yandex more and more. They’re like old Google, but obviously based in Russia. https://www.americanfastener.com/tap-and-drill-size-chart/ https://www.americanfastener.com/tap-and-drill-size-chart/ That was the first result.
- hamilyon2 2y ago
  Unfortunately, yandex is destined to fade into irrelevance for the reasons that has nothing to do with the tech.
  - efilife 2y ago
    Can you elaborate?
    - hamilyon2 2y ago
      Half of web in Russia is blocked. Literally, powers that be think of Russian tech companies as of their servants and nothing more. Yandex basically sold their main asset, domain name to other entity.
speleding 2y ago
For queries like that I now turn to Gemini / ChatGPT first. Of course, this is only a good idea if I have some way of sanity checking the answer. If I doubt the answer I get back I try Google search instead.
- CuriouslyC 2y ago
  You can ask a model to provided an analysis of its answer including a probability that it is correct as part of the prompt, helps with doublechecking a lot.
  - wildrhythms 2y ago
    Is there any evidence that these probabilities are based on any real calculated heuristic?
    - CuriouslyC 2y ago
      They're consistent to the model, particularly if you ask the model to rationalize its rating. You will get plenty of hallucinated answers that the model can recognize as hallucinations and give a low rating to in the same response.
      - sehro 2y ago
        If the model can properly and consistently recognize hallucinations, why does it return said hallucinations in the first place?
        CuriouslyC 2y ago
        Models can get caught by what they start to say early. So if they model goes down a path that seems like a likely answer early on, and that ends up being a false lead or dead end, they will end up making up something plausible sounding to try and finish that line of thought even if it's wrong. This is why chain of thought and other "pre-answer" techniques improve results. Because of the way transformers work, they have very good hindsight, so they can realize that they've just said things that are incorrect much more often than they can avoid saying incorrect things.
sambazi 2y ago
> How have we regressed to the point that I'm better off using a paper book than online charts for things that don't change? because products that require iteration lend themself to subscription models which in turn mean a recurring revenue which is deemed superior to onetime payments for a 'finished product'.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

lostlogin 2y ago

If there is any chance I’ll use some web content again, I generally copy and paste the bit I want into the notes app on iOS. You know it’s bad when you trust Apple’s search function over Google.

aulin 2y ago
This, I am a terrible note taker. For years a huge part my knowledge and skills relied on "if I found that information once, I'll find it again". My brain compressed the information by memorizing the path to retrieve it again. Now that does not work anymore. You know some information is out there, you found it once when google worked, now it's lost in the noise. I'm learning to take notes again and organize them so I can search them easily.
- gofreddygo 2y ago
  Yep, i print to pdf a lot now.

tim333 2y ago

Googling "tap size for a 5/16-24 bolt" gives the drill size in the first line of the results page.

geraldwhen 2y ago

I find myself using yandex more and more. They’re like old Google, but obviously based in Russia. https://www.americanfastener.com/tap-and-drill-size-chart/ https://www.americanfastener.com/tap-and-drill-size-chart/ That was the first result.

hamilyon2 2y ago
Unfortunately, yandex is destined to fade into irrelevance for the reasons that has nothing to do with the tech.
- efilife 2y ago
  Can you elaborate?
  - hamilyon2 2y ago
    Half of web in Russia is blocked. Literally, powers that be think of Russian tech companies as of their servants and nothing more. Yandex basically sold their main asset, domain name to other entity.

speleding 2y ago

For queries like that I now turn to Gemini / ChatGPT first. Of course, this is only a good idea if I have some way of sanity checking the answer. If I doubt the answer I get back I try Google search instead.

CuriouslyC 2y ago
You can ask a model to provided an analysis of its answer including a probability that it is correct as part of the prompt, helps with doublechecking a lot.
- wildrhythms 2y ago
  Is there any evidence that these probabilities are based on any real calculated heuristic?
  - CuriouslyC 2y ago
    They're consistent to the model, particularly if you ask the model to rationalize its rating. You will get plenty of hallucinated answers that the model can recognize as hallucinations and give a low rating to in the same response.
    - sehro 2y ago
      If the model can properly and consistently recognize hallucinations, why does it return said hallucinations in the first place?
      - CuriouslyC 2y ago
        Models can get caught by what they start to say early. So if they model goes down a path that seems like a likely answer early on, and that ends up being a false lead or dead end, they will end up making up something plausible sounding to try and finish that line of thought even if it's wrong. This is why chain of thought and other "pre-answer" techniques improve results. Because of the way transformers work, they have very good hindsight, so they can realize that they've just said things that are incorrect much more often than they can avoid saying incorrect things.

sambazi 2y ago

> How have we regressed to the point that I'm better off using a paper book than online charts for things that don't change? because products that require iteration lend themself to subscription models which in turn mean a recurring revenue which is deemed superior to onetime payments for a 'finished product'.