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The internet is an SEO landfill (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256764) This is a related discussion from
by samdung 2y ago
The internet is an SEO landfill (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20256764)
This is a related discussion from about 5 years ago about how SEO is ruining search. Google still seems to have a thick enough skin and a monopoly to get away with crap even after so many years of ruining search.
- zrobotics 2y agoCalling it a Landfill seems accurate. I just searched (on DDG) for the tap size for a 5/16-24 bolt. I got garbage like this:https://shuntool.com/article/what-size-drill-os-used-for-a-5-16-tap https://shuntool.com/article/what-size-drill-os-used-for-a-5... This isn't even the worst example, since it does at least have the correct info buried amongst tons of Ai generated garbage, but I can't use this for reference, since it tells me 4 different drill sizes. I've had to switch back to a paper copy of the machinist's handbook, since I can't trust the internet to give me accurate information anymore. 10 years ago, I could easily search for the clearance hole for a 10-24 fastener, now I get AI junk that I can't trust. How have we regressed to the point that I'm better off using a paper book than online charts for things that don't change?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lostlogin 2y agoIf there is any chance I’ll use some web content again, I generally copy and paste the bit I want into the notes app on iOS. You know it’s bad when you trust Apple’s search function over Google.
- aulin 2y agoThis, I am a terrible note taker. For years a huge part my knowledge and skills relied on "if I found that information once, I'll find it again". My brain compressed the information by memorizing the path to retrieve it again. Now that does not work anymore. You know some information is out there, you found it once when google worked, now it's lost in the noise. I'm learning to take notes again and organize them so I can search them easily.
- gofreddygo 2y agoYep, i print to pdf a lot now.
- tim333 2y agoGoogling "tap size for a 5/16-24 bolt" gives the drill size in the first line of the results page.
- geraldwhen 2y agoI find myself using yandex more and more. They’re like old Google, but obviously based in Russia. https://www.americanfastener.com/tap-and-drill-size-chart/ https://www.americanfastener.com/tap-and-drill-size-chart/ That was the first result.
- hamilyon2 2y agoUnfortunately, yandex is destined to fade into irrelevance for the reasons that has nothing to do with the tech.
- speleding 2y agoFor queries like that I now turn to Gemini / ChatGPT first. Of course, this is only a good idea if I have some way of sanity checking the answer. If I doubt the answer I get back I try Google search instead.
- CuriouslyC 2y agoYou can ask a model to provided an analysis of its answer including a probability that it is correct as part of the prompt, helps with doublechecking a lot.
- wildrhythms 2y agoIs there any evidence that these probabilities are based on any real calculated heuristic?
- CuriouslyC 2y agoThey're consistent to the model, particularly if you ask the model to rationalize its rating. You will get plenty of hallucinated answers that the model can recognize as hallucinations and give a low rating to in the same response.
- sehro 2y agoIf the model can properly and consistently recognize hallucinations, why does it return said hallucinations in the first place?
- CuriouslyC 2y agoModels can get caught by what they start to say early. So if they model goes down a path that seems like a likely answer early on, and that ends up being a false lead or dead end, they will end up making up something plausible sounding to try and finish that line of thought even if it's wrong. This is why chain of thought and other "pre-answer" techniques improve results. Because of the way transformers work, they have very good hindsight, so they can realize that they've just said things that are incorrect much more often than they can avoid saying incorrect things.
- sambazi 2y ago> How have we regressed to the point that I'm better off using a paper book than online charts for things that don't change? because products that require iteration lend themself to subscription models which in turn mean a recurring revenue which is deemed superior to onetime payments for a 'finished product'.
- noobermin 2y agoMind you this is then before the recent article that alleges Ben Gomes was pushed out of Google[0]. This was my feeling regarding that post, that search had been getting worse from before 2019. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40133976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40133976
- larodi 2y agoWith the forthcoming winter of synthetic content, we may easily find ourselves, in the coming few years, forced to resort once again to directories a-la AltaVista and Mozilla's. I really see no way Google would stop their ads activities, as these provide the financial backbone. In a sense we resorted to the searchable message board, once an university homework assignment, in the form of HN here.
- wildrhythms 2y agoRest assured the existing tech monopolies who are flooding the internet with hallucinated AI garbage will be there to sell us our own "Verified Human-Written Content" back to us.
- reddalo 2y agoWe need to collectively stop using Google, but the alternatives are just not as good for some things. The best one is probably Kagi, but let's be real: "normal" people would never pay for a search engine service. Well, "normal" people don't even know the difference between Google, Google Chrome and probably the internet.
- VBprogrammer 2y agoGoogle was a decent search engine until the gold rush years.
- rainonmoon 2y agoI say this as someone who doesn't yet use Kagi but is increasingly warming to the idea: I think normal people may pay for a search engine, one day. People used to think the bottom had irrevocably fallen out of paying for media once internet piracy became a thing. Streaming services may be in an unappealing state now, but they at least showed that people can be persuaded to pay for something if it makes access to the things they love easier. We might be years away from it, but I wouldn't say never. And $10 to find things on the internet again seems like a more persuasive offer than what people are currently paying for streaming.
- LtdJorge 2y agoI'd pay 10€ for DDG
- gU9x3u8XmQNG 2y agoI’d love to go full Kagi. I feel the family pricing, as a new user, is just a little too high for me. A family of four, two kids and two adults; 20 dollars ex GST (excluding tax) is.. gosh. With the cost of living growing so quickly.. It’s quite a defeating experience. So in conclusion; I expand your criteria above. Even “not-normal” people may not pay for a search engine, though for financial reasons in my case.
- VelesDude 2y agoMy default is Duckduckgo but in the recent weeks they have massively upped how abrasive their ads are. Nothing wrong with there being search related ads but the sheer volume is getting out of control.
- miohtama 2y agoThe earlier 2019 discussion about how Google deliberately worsened search results to make people see more ads https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40138486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40138486
- wslh 2y agoSeems like Larry Page and Sergey Brin should return to Stanford to do a postdoc. Irony intended.