4 ms·

I can tell you how without science. Pay people more, work them less.

sandspar 2y ago
Loneliness has almost nothing to do with work hours or pay. People in literally all of human history worked and yet we've only had ubiquitous loneliness for like 30 years.
- kubielid 2y ago
  I’m sorry but this is simply wrong. You think financial pressure has zero bearing on your mental health? What bearing does your mental health have on your capacity to form and nurture relationships? If you read the article then you’d know the org has been given 5M euro and so far has come up with: > strategies such as joining clubs or pursuing hobbies You’ll need spare cash and spare time for those solutions.
  - gffrd 2y ago
    > the org has been given 5M euro and so far has come up with: >> strategies such as joining clubs or pursuing hobbies I could have saved them $5M by loaning them my copy of “Bowling Alone”
  - gr8r 2y ago
    The article is a joke. But your "Pay people more, work them less" comment is tipping off people. You must be on to something lol. > strategies such as joining clubs or pursuing hobbies I have to go online to find the clubs? In America, there's consolidation everywhere in search of greater efficiency and profits. From local tennis clubs merging into city-wide organizations managed through an app to monopolies emerging in corporate landscape.
    - kubielid 2y ago
      > You must be on to something lol. Only the orange site would get angry at someone suggesting they should be paid more and have more free time to pursue their interests.
- kubielid 2y ago
  Where’d you come up with 30 years? Just a feeling? Perhaps you’re feeling the transition in increased disparity between minimum wage and cost of living that occurred ~30 years ago? https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflation-productivity/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflati...
- gr8r 2y ago
  One way to interpret parent kubielid - he is referring to the infinite rat race for diminishing marginal returns. > all of human history worked And you are also correct. They probably had a tough life and for those humans, the reward was survival and more. I can only imagine waking up on a cold morning, no running water, stepping out on the fields, using average manual tools. They probably stuck around in groups.
charlie0 2y ago
Why pay more though? You can always work less. My point being is that people want to be rich and loneliness takes a backseat. The least lonely people I know are all working class and near the poverty level. In contrast, most of the well off people I know are a lot more lonely.
- kubielid 2y ago
  > Why pay more though? Why indeed? Your bosses must love you defending your own mistreatment. You should put this quote on your CV. > you can always work less. Do you honestly think you can tell that to a person struggling financially while working 3 jobs? > most of the well off people I know are a lot more lonely. In a society of such aggressive wealth disparity as ours, a result of underpaying and overworking the majority of the population, a lot of wealthy people self isolate, and become lonely, because they had to harm others to get that wealth or are afraid the poors will try to take it from them. Do those wealthy people somehow deserve my sympathy, or the focus of the efforts of this scientific inquiry, more than the people working multiple jobs yet are unable to ever retire?
sublinear 2y ago
That is almost completely orthogonal to loneliness wtf?
- kubielid 2y ago
  How so? Also, orthogonal lines share a common point of intersection.
  - sublinear 2y ago
    prouf?
    - exe34 2y ago
      Let lines A and B be non-parallel. They must intersect, because parallel lines do not intersect, by definition). Orthogonal lines are not parallel, but they must lie in the same plane (by definition of orthogonal). Therefore orthogonal lines must cross at exactly one point.
SeanAnderson 2y ago
If anything, I became more lonely when I made enough money to not have to work. I stopped interacting with society as much because it was no longer a requirement.
- spxneo 2y ago
  Same here and you know it's not all bad. Just very lonely at the top.
- Gooblebrai 2y ago
  Is the rest of your circle in the same position as you are? Usually the problem is being the one retired while the rest of your friends still have to work
  - exe34 2y ago
    Not everyone has a circle. Some people are just points. Even though it feels pointless.
- Simulacra 2y ago
  Agreed. It's not money, its proximity. I was more lonely than ever during WFH. Not having a daily forced human interaction (work) was crippling.
  - kubielid 2y ago
    > It's not money, its proximity. If that’s the case then how do you solve the proximity problem when you have $0 and 0 free time? Honestly this thread is chock full of: “I’m rich and still lonely!” people who are so far off the mark on rationalizing my suggestion that I feel a need to amend my gp: “pay people more, work them less, and learn how to have empathy for other people”
- kubielid 2y ago
  Okay, if we take your comment as the “full truth” then you have successfully identified the cause of your loneliness so the solution for you, specifically you, would be to give your money away. Then “interacting” would be a requirement again.
anon7725 2y ago
As a species, we’ve never been paid more or worked less.
- kubielid 2y ago
  Perhaps for you. Do you believe this as an American statistic, or global one? What evidence ca you provide? I feel like all of the articles I read about comparing work across time say people worked less before industrialization; although I think it’s a silly thing to compare and more of a thought experiment. Either way what relief does your position provide, even if correct, to the many underpaid and overworked people living in your city? How does your opinion fit into the current uptick in people having to work multiple jobs, and people saying they will be unable to ever retire.
slyfox125 2y ago
It seems that a society would require more people in order for this to be so, so that the same level of services can be provided due to the decrease in productivity. Accordingly, more services will be needed to account for that increase in people. This raises the question of whether there is a point where the two trends reach some type of harmony. Perhaps the evolution of "AI" and robotics will get us there (or not). Ultimately, this raises the question of whether all this actually ultimately places us in a better position, e.g., the state of humanity as seen in something like the anime Darling in the Franxx. Interestingly, this is similar to the notion that poorer people that work less desirable jobs for less money are less lonely.
- kubielid 2y ago
  > decrease in productivity Citation needed. Aside from despising the “productivity” defense, the 4 day work weeks has shown to increase “productivity“. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-four-day-workweek-reduces-stress-without-hurting-productivity/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-four-day-workwe...

Loneliness has almost nothing to do with work hours or pay. People in literally all of human history worked and yet we've only had ubiquitous loneliness for like 30 years.

kubielid 2y ago
I’m sorry but this is simply wrong. You think financial pressure has zero bearing on your mental health? What bearing does your mental health have on your capacity to form and nurture relationships? If you read the article then you’d know the org has been given 5M euro and so far has come up with: > strategies such as joining clubs or pursuing hobbies You’ll need spare cash and spare time for those solutions.
- gffrd 2y ago
  > the org has been given 5M euro and so far has come up with: >> strategies such as joining clubs or pursuing hobbies I could have saved them $5M by loaning them my copy of “Bowling Alone”
- gr8r 2y ago
  The article is a joke. But your "Pay people more, work them less" comment is tipping off people. You must be on to something lol. > strategies such as joining clubs or pursuing hobbies I have to go online to find the clubs? In America, there's consolidation everywhere in search of greater efficiency and profits. From local tennis clubs merging into city-wide organizations managed through an app to monopolies emerging in corporate landscape.
  - kubielid 2y ago
    > You must be on to something lol. Only the orange site would get angry at someone suggesting they should be paid more and have more free time to pursue their interests.
kubielid 2y ago
Where’d you come up with 30 years? Just a feeling? Perhaps you’re feeling the transition in increased disparity between minimum wage and cost of living that occurred ~30 years ago? https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflation-productivity/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/21/politics/minimum-wage-inflati...
gr8r 2y ago
One way to interpret parent kubielid - he is referring to the infinite rat race for diminishing marginal returns. > all of human history worked And you are also correct. They probably had a tough life and for those humans, the reward was survival and more. I can only imagine waking up on a cold morning, no running water, stepping out on the fields, using average manual tools. They probably stuck around in groups.

charlie0 2y ago

Why pay more though? You can always work less. My point being is that people want to be rich and loneliness takes a backseat. The least lonely people I know are all working class and near the poverty level. In contrast, most of the well off people I know are a lot more lonely.

kubielid 2y ago
> Why pay more though? Why indeed? Your bosses must love you defending your own mistreatment. You should put this quote on your CV. > you can always work less. Do you honestly think you can tell that to a person struggling financially while working 3 jobs? > most of the well off people I know are a lot more lonely. In a society of such aggressive wealth disparity as ours, a result of underpaying and overworking the majority of the population, a lot of wealthy people self isolate, and become lonely, because they had to harm others to get that wealth or are afraid the poors will try to take it from them. Do those wealthy people somehow deserve my sympathy, or the focus of the efforts of this scientific inquiry, more than the people working multiple jobs yet are unable to ever retire?

sublinear 2y ago

That is almost completely orthogonal to loneliness wtf?

kubielid 2y ago
How so? Also, orthogonal lines share a common point of intersection.
- sublinear 2y ago
  prouf?
  - exe34 2y ago
    Let lines A and B be non-parallel. They must intersect, because parallel lines do not intersect, by definition). Orthogonal lines are not parallel, but they must lie in the same plane (by definition of orthogonal). Therefore orthogonal lines must cross at exactly one point.

SeanAnderson 2y ago

If anything, I became more lonely when I made enough money to not have to work. I stopped interacting with society as much because it was no longer a requirement.

spxneo 2y ago
Same here and you know it's not all bad. Just very lonely at the top.
Gooblebrai 2y ago
Is the rest of your circle in the same position as you are? Usually the problem is being the one retired while the rest of your friends still have to work
- exe34 2y ago
  Not everyone has a circle. Some people are just points. Even though it feels pointless.
Simulacra 2y ago
Agreed. It's not money, its proximity. I was more lonely than ever during WFH. Not having a daily forced human interaction (work) was crippling.
- kubielid 2y ago
  > It's not money, its proximity. If that’s the case then how do you solve the proximity problem when you have $0 and 0 free time? Honestly this thread is chock full of: “I’m rich and still lonely!” people who are so far off the mark on rationalizing my suggestion that I feel a need to amend my gp: “pay people more, work them less, and learn how to have empathy for other people”
kubielid 2y ago
Okay, if we take your comment as the “full truth” then you have successfully identified the cause of your loneliness so the solution for you, specifically you, would be to give your money away. Then “interacting” would be a requirement again.

anon7725 2y ago

As a species, we’ve never been paid more or worked less.

kubielid 2y ago
Perhaps for you. Do you believe this as an American statistic, or global one? What evidence ca you provide? I feel like all of the articles I read about comparing work across time say people worked less before industrialization; although I think it’s a silly thing to compare and more of a thought experiment. Either way what relief does your position provide, even if correct, to the many underpaid and overworked people living in your city? How does your opinion fit into the current uptick in people having to work multiple jobs, and people saying they will be unable to ever retire.

slyfox125 2y ago

It seems that a society would require more people in order for this to be so, so that the same level of services can be provided due to the decrease in productivity. Accordingly, more services will be needed to account for that increase in people. This raises the question of whether there is a point where the two trends reach some type of harmony. Perhaps the evolution of "AI" and robotics will get us there (or not). Ultimately, this raises the question of whether all this actually ultimately places us in a better position, e.g., the state of humanity as seen in something like the anime Darling in the Franxx. Interestingly, this is similar to the notion that poorer people that work less desirable jobs for less money are less lonely.

kubielid 2y ago
> decrease in productivity Citation needed. Aside from despising the “productivity” defense, the 4 day work weeks has shown to increase “productivity“. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-four-day-workweek-reduces-stress-without-hurting-productivity/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-four-day-workwe...