4 ms·

> the fuel cost of a hire car is insignificant compared to the cost of the hire itself. That’s not true everywhere. I’m currently on holidays: the car rental

> the fuel cost of a hire car is insignificant compared to the cost of the hire itself. That’s not true everywhere. I’m currently on holidays: the car rental for 6d was 130euros, insurance 40, and gas will be about 60 for 10-15h of driving. Gas doesn’t dominate the price but it’s far from insignificant, and it only gets worse as price increases

Rinzler89 2y ago
But you save a lot more time traveling with a gas car since you're not looking for charring stations along the route every 150-350km and waiting hours to charge. Also, charging at public chargers isn't that cheap or frictionless. At home yeah, but at stations not so much. Not compared to filling up with gas and being on your way in less than 5 minutes.
- cogman10 2y ago
  > But you save a lot more time traveling with a gas car since you're not looking for charring stations along the route every 150-350km and waiting hours to charge. While I'm sure it happens, that's never been my experience. You plug your trip into the car's navigation system and it'll plan out the charge stops for you. It's quiet frictionless. Tesla's is really good as it will even plan on sending you to less busy charging stations vs more busy ones (and reroute if that changes). > Also, charging at public chargers isn't that cheap or frictionless. Depends on the network. Tesla's isn't terribly expensive and is extremely frictionless. Electrify America is horseshit, both on cost and ease of use. This is a solvable problem. > Not compared to filling up with gas and being on your way in less than 5 minutes. Behavior ends up changing here if you road trip with an EV. Rather than just getting fuel then going somewhere else to eat you'll usually charge while you eat, use the restroom, or go for a walk. If you really don't have anything else to do, you'll probably just catch a tv show on your phone. That coveted 5 minutes ends up just not being a big deal because you are multitasking with the charging. (Which for me is typically 20->30 minutes).
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >Tesla's is really good ... >Tesla's isn't terribly expensive and is extremely frictionless... I'm sure Tesla is great, but my ICE is excellent in both those categories and cost me 6000 Euros used in mint condition with only 4 years and 40k KM of usage. Which used Tesla can I get in that budget?
    - cogman10 2y ago
      K. That wasn't a part of your original post. Did you want me to start debating the economics of buying EVs? If I were to advise someone for the best EV to buy, I'd probably suggest holding off for 5 or 10 more years. Even if I were suggesting a new EV to buy, I'd suggest holding off for 1 maybe 2 years in north america because everything is switching over to NACS. If we are talking about someone in the EU, I'd still probably suggest waiting a couple of years if you can, but if you can't you can probably grab a Nissan leaf for roughly that 6000 euros and that mileage. If you can wait a few more years, especially in the EU, then the used market options are going to explode. I'd probably look at some of the Chinese second hand EVs as they are already pretty cheap and will likely be super cheap used in a few years. And if you are in the EU, EVs that are roughly the same prices as an ICE are going to make a lot of financial sense because of the high petrol prices. Would I suggest someone get a Tesla today? Eh, depends. I probably will not get one for my next vehicle, but I plan on running this one into the ground (currently at 130,000 miles and I plan to keep going until something gives). In the US, I'd suggest today you take a good look at the iconiq if you are buying new. But again, in the US, I'd strongly suggest waiting for a couple of years at this moment.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        >Did you want me to start debating the economics of buying EVs? Well, EV growth and adoption is all about economics (can you afford them in your business/lifestyle to replace your ICE or not?) Herz's decision to drop EVs is about economics (is it profitable for them or not?). So yeah, Economics are very important in this discussion so why not talk about it? You pointing out Tesla, the most premium EV brand with the best chagrin network, as the competition to cheap ICEs is like telling peasants who can't afford bread that they should eat cake. EU voters aren't gonna be happy with this come 2035 if the EV market isn't full of cheap models with long range by then and we might see an exertion of the ICE life, especially since the post 2022 conditions has decimated the purchasing power and disposable income of the average European. We might have counted our chickens before they were hatched on this one. >you can probably grab a Nissan leaf for roughly that 6000 euros and that mileage Unfortunately, the Leaf's range is pitiful compared to even the most econobox ICE. And range is very important to EU buyers.
darrylb42 2y ago
That seems cheap for gas. 15h driving ~6l/100km 90l of gas. That would be over $200 in gas for me.

Rinzler89 2y ago

But you save a lot more time traveling with a gas car since you're not looking for charring stations along the route every 150-350km and waiting hours to charge. Also, charging at public chargers isn't that cheap or frictionless. At home yeah, but at stations not so much. Not compared to filling up with gas and being on your way in less than 5 minutes.

cogman10 2y ago
> But you save a lot more time traveling with a gas car since you're not looking for charring stations along the route every 150-350km and waiting hours to charge. While I'm sure it happens, that's never been my experience. You plug your trip into the car's navigation system and it'll plan out the charge stops for you. It's quiet frictionless. Tesla's is really good as it will even plan on sending you to less busy charging stations vs more busy ones (and reroute if that changes). > Also, charging at public chargers isn't that cheap or frictionless. Depends on the network. Tesla's isn't terribly expensive and is extremely frictionless. Electrify America is horseshit, both on cost and ease of use. This is a solvable problem. > Not compared to filling up with gas and being on your way in less than 5 minutes. Behavior ends up changing here if you road trip with an EV. Rather than just getting fuel then going somewhere else to eat you'll usually charge while you eat, use the restroom, or go for a walk. If you really don't have anything else to do, you'll probably just catch a tv show on your phone. That coveted 5 minutes ends up just not being a big deal because you are multitasking with the charging. (Which for me is typically 20->30 minutes).
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Tesla's is really good ... >Tesla's isn't terribly expensive and is extremely frictionless... I'm sure Tesla is great, but my ICE is excellent in both those categories and cost me 6000 Euros used in mint condition with only 4 years and 40k KM of usage. Which used Tesla can I get in that budget?
  - cogman10 2y ago
    K. That wasn't a part of your original post. Did you want me to start debating the economics of buying EVs? If I were to advise someone for the best EV to buy, I'd probably suggest holding off for 5 or 10 more years. Even if I were suggesting a new EV to buy, I'd suggest holding off for 1 maybe 2 years in north america because everything is switching over to NACS. If we are talking about someone in the EU, I'd still probably suggest waiting a couple of years if you can, but if you can't you can probably grab a Nissan leaf for roughly that 6000 euros and that mileage. If you can wait a few more years, especially in the EU, then the used market options are going to explode. I'd probably look at some of the Chinese second hand EVs as they are already pretty cheap and will likely be super cheap used in a few years. And if you are in the EU, EVs that are roughly the same prices as an ICE are going to make a lot of financial sense because of the high petrol prices. Would I suggest someone get a Tesla today? Eh, depends. I probably will not get one for my next vehicle, but I plan on running this one into the ground (currently at 130,000 miles and I plan to keep going until something gives). In the US, I'd suggest today you take a good look at the iconiq if you are buying new. But again, in the US, I'd strongly suggest waiting for a couple of years at this moment.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      >Did you want me to start debating the economics of buying EVs? Well, EV growth and adoption is all about economics (can you afford them in your business/lifestyle to replace your ICE or not?) Herz's decision to drop EVs is about economics (is it profitable for them or not?). So yeah, Economics are very important in this discussion so why not talk about it? You pointing out Tesla, the most premium EV brand with the best chagrin network, as the competition to cheap ICEs is like telling peasants who can't afford bread that they should eat cake. EU voters aren't gonna be happy with this come 2035 if the EV market isn't full of cheap models with long range by then and we might see an exertion of the ICE life, especially since the post 2022 conditions has decimated the purchasing power and disposable income of the average European. We might have counted our chickens before they were hatched on this one. >you can probably grab a Nissan leaf for roughly that 6000 euros and that mileage Unfortunately, the Leaf's range is pitiful compared to even the most econobox ICE. And range is very important to EU buyers.

darrylb42 2y ago

That seems cheap for gas. 15h driving ~6l/100km 90l of gas. That would be over $200 in gas for me.