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One frustrating thing about Apple is that if you try to get help, there isn’t really any way to do it. There isn’t any way to open a real support ticket that wi

One frustrating thing about Apple is that if you try to get help, there isn’t really any way to do it. There isn’t any way to open a real support ticket that will be seen by an engineering team there. The store staff can only do basic things. And if you go to their forums, you will get bot-like responses telling you to follow some useless generic steps that do nothing for your specific problem, or weird replies justifying some obviously incorrect thing with an Apple product like asking why you would even want to do whatever you’re trying to do. I am not even sure who those people are that troll those Apple forums and serve as Apple apologists - like if they are employees of Apple or random users - but they are completely useless and basically deter anyone from seeking help in the first place. It is staggering that a company this big has nonexistent support and I think given the decline in their quality over the years, this will become a bigger and bigger problem. Unfortunately for most people the alternative is Windows, where Microsoft is abusing their monopolistic market power to shove ads and their services everyhwere. We really need new antitrust laws to break up these companies and support fair competition, and we also need regulations to reign in the biggest technology companies.

int_19h 3y ago
For a non-business user, the situation with support (or rather lack thereof) is pretty much the same across Microsoft/Google/Apple. It's amazing that this is even legal, especially when it comes to account suspension/recovery.
throwaway290 3y ago
Can't you go to an Apple Store? Every time I see some customers seem to have a problem around Apple ID and such and staff helping. The opposite of Google, Microsoft etc. And there is a recovery process for Apple ID if you don't use a recovery key (and I guess if you have some government ID or such).
- SSLy 3y ago
  Nearest is 600 km away.
  - amelius 3y ago
    You can't call them?
    - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
      On... the phone? I really doubt that calls are disabled since it's "just" appleids, but the irony is still amusing. Landlines still have some uses after all!
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        The way it works is you request the call to any number or you can eg. request a text chat. If you have no access to any phone anywhere then it sounds like bricked iphone (which this "lockout" doesn't do) is a relatively small problem for you
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      Hah. You expect that calling a store - after you get through the phone tree that gets you to the actual store, that someone at the store is going to sit down and start providing you customer support? No, they're going to tell you to make a Genius appointment, or go to the web, or their support number. They're not going to take time off of the floor, and if they do transfer you to the Genius bar, you've got 3-5 minutes, if that, to get an answer, before they too, do the same thing. The idea that a sales person in an Apple store is taking 20 minutes or more off the floor to provide some random caller tech support when they don't have any of the tooling around it, can't see your account, very little if any access to support databases, let alone account manipulation, is laughable. Apple does a lot of things. This isn't one of them.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    A couple of times in the last years I called them and they were helpful, but my issues were hardware so can't speak for Apple ID related stuff. When you schedule a call in the gui there are options for software troubles I recall though.
vineyardmike 3y ago
Not trying to excuse their behavior, but my best friend and roommate was a part time phone support in college so I learned a few tricks… 1. They get a lot of dumb questions. If you want a “talk to an engineer” bug report, you really need to prove competency to the support staff. Obviously be nice because they’re not the source of your problems they’re just trying to do their job. 2. Chat staff aren’t able to do much, phone staff have more power and insight. Chat staff can’t see your account, can’t issue pity refunds, can’t make choices outside of the generic script. You should call during US business hours if you’re trying to call the US support. Best case scenario is finding a college student. 3. They’re required to have you follow the generic published help scripts first. If you pull up the webpage and directly tell staff you followed each step - then read them the steps for proof you know them - they’ll often be able to just to the “custom help” portion. 4. If you make any reference to the TOS/Laws/etc they will mark your account as troubled and you will never get service again. You get legal canned responses only. They seem you not a valuable customer anymore. Don’t reference warranty law, definitely don’t threaten to sue, etc. 5. They can see how many apple products you have registered, how much you spend, etc and the customer service agent can decide how generous to be. If you only own a 5yo iPhone, and you’re contacting support claiming the screen magically broke in your sleep they won’t help. If you’ve upgraded every iPhone in your house every year for a decade, they might be nice when it “magically breaks on its own”. 6. They have minimal training outside of the above mentioned docs. Again, the phone staff has better training. They have common devices in front of them, and if you can get someone sympathetic on the phone, they might try to reproduce it live. That’s the golden ticket to a bug report.
- LocalH 3y ago
  >4. If you make any reference to the TOS/Laws/etc they will mark your account as troubled and you will never get service again. You get legal canned responses only. They seem you not a valuable customer anymore. Don’t reference warranty law, definitely don’t threaten to sue, etc. This is problematic. They'll be happy to parrot out whatever TOS section you violated if you get banned under TOS, but completely stonewall you if you bring it up? In situations like these, I draw analogy to a hypothetical legal system that does the same thing. Imagine that you are defending yourself in a court of law, and you bring up a specific legal code in your defense. The court then brickwalls you and assumes you are a bad actor, and you get thrown in jail. I know the analogy isn't perfect, but none are.

int_19h 3y ago

For a non-business user, the situation with support (or rather lack thereof) is pretty much the same across Microsoft/Google/Apple. It's amazing that this is even legal, especially when it comes to account suspension/recovery.

throwaway290 3y ago

Can't you go to an Apple Store? Every time I see some customers seem to have a problem around Apple ID and such and staff helping. The opposite of Google, Microsoft etc. And there is a recovery process for Apple ID if you don't use a recovery key (and I guess if you have some government ID or such).

SSLy 3y ago
Nearest is 600 km away.
- amelius 3y ago
  You can't call them?
  - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
    On... the phone? I really doubt that calls are disabled since it's "just" appleids, but the irony is still amusing. Landlines still have some uses after all!
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      The way it works is you request the call to any number or you can eg. request a text chat. If you have no access to any phone anywhere then it sounds like bricked iphone (which this "lockout" doesn't do) is a relatively small problem for you
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Hah. You expect that calling a store - after you get through the phone tree that gets you to the actual store, that someone at the store is going to sit down and start providing you customer support? No, they're going to tell you to make a Genius appointment, or go to the web, or their support number. They're not going to take time off of the floor, and if they do transfer you to the Genius bar, you've got 3-5 minutes, if that, to get an answer, before they too, do the same thing. The idea that a sales person in an Apple store is taking 20 minutes or more off the floor to provide some random caller tech support when they don't have any of the tooling around it, can't see your account, very little if any access to support databases, let alone account manipulation, is laughable. Apple does a lot of things. This isn't one of them.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  A couple of times in the last years I called them and they were helpful, but my issues were hardware so can't speak for Apple ID related stuff. When you schedule a call in the gui there are options for software troubles I recall though.

vineyardmike 3y ago

Not trying to excuse their behavior, but my best friend and roommate was a part time phone support in college so I learned a few tricks… 1. They get a lot of dumb questions. If you want a “talk to an engineer” bug report, you really need to prove competency to the support staff. Obviously be nice because they’re not the source of your problems they’re just trying to do their job. 2. Chat staff aren’t able to do much, phone staff have more power and insight. Chat staff can’t see your account, can’t issue pity refunds, can’t make choices outside of the generic script. You should call during US business hours if you’re trying to call the US support. Best case scenario is finding a college student. 3. They’re required to have you follow the generic published help scripts first. If you pull up the webpage and directly tell staff you followed each step - then read them the steps for proof you know them - they’ll often be able to just to the “custom help” portion. 4. If you make any reference to the TOS/Laws/etc they will mark your account as troubled and you will never get service again. You get legal canned responses only. They seem you not a valuable customer anymore. Don’t reference warranty law, definitely don’t threaten to sue, etc. 5. They can see how many apple products you have registered, how much you spend, etc and the customer service agent can decide how generous to be. If you only own a 5yo iPhone, and you’re contacting support claiming the screen magically broke in your sleep they won’t help. If you’ve upgraded every iPhone in your house every year for a decade, they might be nice when it “magically breaks on its own”. 6. They have minimal training outside of the above mentioned docs. Again, the phone staff has better training. They have common devices in front of them, and if you can get someone sympathetic on the phone, they might try to reproduce it live. That’s the golden ticket to a bug report.

LocalH 3y ago
>4. If you make any reference to the TOS/Laws/etc they will mark your account as troubled and you will never get service again. You get legal canned responses only. They seem you not a valuable customer anymore. Don’t reference warranty law, definitely don’t threaten to sue, etc. This is problematic. They'll be happy to parrot out whatever TOS section you violated if you get banned under TOS, but completely stonewall you if you bring it up? In situations like these, I draw analogy to a hypothetical legal system that does the same thing. Imagine that you are defending yourself in a court of law, and you bring up a specific legal code in your defense. The court then brickwalls you and assumes you are a bad actor, and you get thrown in jail. I know the analogy isn't perfect, but none are.