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i got caught up in this :( really sad about the whole thing; this was by far the best job i've had in my 20-year career (including other teams at google), and i

by zem 3y ago

i got caught up in this :( really sad about the whole thing; this was by far the best job i've had in my 20-year career (including other teams at google), and i do not know if i will ever have another one as good. we were a chronically understaffed team supporting a large part of the python ecosystem at google, and we did some amazing work over the years.

_giorgio_ 3y ago
Seriously, what is the reason for this move? The language is so good and well known that they don't need a dedicated team to do these activites you talked about? Or are they hiring cheaper workers? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40171125#40176438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40171125#40176438 I don't understand such a move, because all AI is developed in pytorch. I think that google uses JAX and pytorch.
- zem 3y ago
  they are building a new python team from scratch in munich, for whatever reason. yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either.
  - joyboyluffy 3y ago
    I am sure you will find another job that you really like. Well you said you guys were seriously understaffed but that makes it more nonsense to fire them. So were you guys working on a specific project and will those guys from munich continue on it.
    - zem 3y ago
      we were working on a ton of stuff (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40176338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40176338) - pretty sure the munich team will need to pick up most or all of it.
  - rtpg 3y ago
    Salary, right? I have to imagine at one point the gap between US devs and European devs is starting to be felt
    - happyopossum 3y ago
      The team wasn't US based - GP is in .nl...
      - rtpg 3y ago
        As others have pointed out, OP is in NL, but the rest of the team was in the US.
  - luckyrand 3y ago
    I’m sorry to hear that. It does not make sense at all. Python cython is a complex ecosystem. It is very difficult for new engineers to pick up speed. Do you think there is some priority change? Like more focus on internal use case, instead of upstream contribution?
    - zem 3y ago
      i doubt there is much room for a priority change. as i said elsewhere, we were a pretty understaffed team, so we were already very focused on the highest value internal use cases. we did have a couple of people who also worked on the core python interpreter, but that was only a fraction of their duties, and even our open source and upstream contributions were driven by stuff that google also needed done.
      - Bcobleigh2 3y ago
        The Python Foundation team should spin off and make an AI company. Would probably receive a lot of interest from investors.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Sleepful 3y ago
  In my mind it would make sense if there are some laws to which they want to adhere, perhaps something EU-related (GDPR? IDK), and moving to Munich might be a good way of prioritizing. Perhaps something US-related they don't like, see for example that TikTok is an AI company and yeah, or the KYC-related stuff [1]. However, I am talking out of my ass, I don't really keep up with laws, upcoming bills or anything like that. :shrug: [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40158752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40158752
dartharva 3y ago
Care to weigh in about what you reckon happened? Surely the company didn't suddenly lose its need of the Python ecosystem?
- zem 3y ago
  i reckon we simply got offshored, since they're now building a whole new python team in munich, though i don't know whether for cost reasons or to expand the languages presence in the munich office or both.
  - CydeWeys 3y ago
    Why would they lay off the existing team first, rather than spin up the new team, have the old team train the new team, and give old team members a chance to move countries if they wanted?
    - zem 3y ago
      i honestly don't know, except perhaps to say "this is what google is now". your "rather than" is definitely how it used to be done in the past.
    - bdd8f1df777b 3y ago
      I can only speculate: some directors/vps got headcount reduction goals (reduce eng cost by XXX with deadline at XXX), and they couldn't meet those goals if the layoff is to be delayed until the new team is fully operational.
      - mihai_maruseac 3y ago
        This. There was a sudden push to reduce costs and people with decision power tried to make sure their teams won't get affected.
  - joezydeco 3y ago
    Gateway to cheap developers in Eastern Europe, Poland, Ukraine, etc
nicsu 3y ago
@zem maybe you would be interested in what we do http://tektonic.ai http://tektonic.ai please let me know at nic.surpatanu@tektonic.ai We are looking for an ML + DSL engineer to imagine and build our execution runtime and dev platform.

by zem 3y ago

_giorgio_ 3y ago

Seriously, what is the reason for this move? The language is so good and well known that they don't need a dedicated team to do these activites you talked about? Or are they hiring cheaper workers? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40171125#40176438 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40171125#40176438 I don't understand such a move, because all AI is developed in pytorch. I think that google uses JAX and pytorch.

zem 3y ago
they are building a new python team from scratch in munich, for whatever reason. yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either.
- joyboyluffy 3y ago
  I am sure you will find another job that you really like. Well you said you guys were seriously understaffed but that makes it more nonsense to fire them. So were you guys working on a specific project and will those guys from munich continue on it.
  - zem 3y ago
    we were working on a ton of stuff (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40176338 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40176338) - pretty sure the munich team will need to pick up most or all of it.
- rtpg 3y ago
  Salary, right? I have to imagine at one point the gap between US devs and European devs is starting to be felt
  - happyopossum 3y ago
    The team wasn't US based - GP is in .nl...
    - rtpg 3y ago
      As others have pointed out, OP is in NL, but the rest of the team was in the US.
- luckyrand 3y ago
  I’m sorry to hear that. It does not make sense at all. Python cython is a complex ecosystem. It is very difficult for new engineers to pick up speed. Do you think there is some priority change? Like more focus on internal use case, instead of upstream contribution?
  - zem 3y ago
    i doubt there is much room for a priority change. as i said elsewhere, we were a pretty understaffed team, so we were already very focused on the highest value internal use cases. we did have a couple of people who also worked on the core python interpreter, but that was only a fraction of their duties, and even our open source and upstream contributions were driven by stuff that google also needed done.
    - Bcobleigh2 3y ago
      The Python Foundation team should spin off and make an AI company. Would probably receive a lot of interest from investors.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Sleepful 3y ago
In my mind it would make sense if there are some laws to which they want to adhere, perhaps something EU-related (GDPR? IDK), and moving to Munich might be a good way of prioritizing. Perhaps something US-related they don't like, see for example that TikTok is an AI company and yeah, or the KYC-related stuff [1]. However, I am talking out of my ass, I don't really keep up with laws, upcoming bills or anything like that. :shrug: [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40158752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40158752

dartharva 3y ago

Care to weigh in about what you reckon happened? Surely the company didn't suddenly lose its need of the Python ecosystem?

zem 3y ago
i reckon we simply got offshored, since they're now building a whole new python team in munich, though i don't know whether for cost reasons or to expand the languages presence in the munich office or both.
- CydeWeys 3y ago
  Why would they lay off the existing team first, rather than spin up the new team, have the old team train the new team, and give old team members a chance to move countries if they wanted?
  - zem 3y ago
    i honestly don't know, except perhaps to say "this is what google is now". your "rather than" is definitely how it used to be done in the past.
  - bdd8f1df777b 3y ago
    I can only speculate: some directors/vps got headcount reduction goals (reduce eng cost by XXX with deadline at XXX), and they couldn't meet those goals if the layoff is to be delayed until the new team is fully operational.
    - mihai_maruseac 3y ago
      This. There was a sudden push to reduce costs and people with decision power tried to make sure their teams won't get affected.
- joezydeco 3y ago
  Gateway to cheap developers in Eastern Europe, Poland, Ukraine, etc

nicsu 3y ago

@zem maybe you would be interested in what we do http://tektonic.ai http://tektonic.ai please let me know at nic.surpatanu@tektonic.ai We are looking for an ML + DSL engineer to imagine and build our execution runtime and dev platform.