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Every time my insurance renews they try to sell me on plugging something into my OBD2 port so they can gather data on my driving. That’s a hard pass. My insuran

Every time my insurance renews they try to sell me on plugging something into my OBD2 port so they can gather data on my driving. That’s a hard pass. My insurance has gone up quite a lot, but this is something I don’t want to compromise on. Adjacent to this, in my state I can save ~ $200 on my EV registration if I plug in a tracking dongle to read mileage. For some reason, just reading the odometer difference is not enough.

zbrozek 2y ago
I have yet to hear a good explanation of why the odometer isn't sufficient. Either the cost to manually read is outrageous or there's nefarious secondary purpose.
- floatrock 2y ago
  Any schlub can slip the tech at your autoshop a $20 to misread the odometer. Need more work to fake a digital reading. This is all around the bigger issue here is how we fund road work: often it's done with a state tax on gasoline sales, so the more you use the roads the more you pay for them. Worked great, reasonably fair, even somewhat punished heavier vehicles (road wear is something more-than-linear to weight, and heavier cars generally need more gas). And then those pesky non-gas electrics came onto the scene. So you now you have a system and a bureaucracy funded by a not-terrible pay-as-you-go tax, and suddenly lots of users don't need the thing your taxing. What's a bureaucracy to do? Well, if you're in a state that thinks EV's are woke propaganda and an existential threat to your truck-based manliness, simple: you charge absurd annual registration fees and say "well, we gotta get the equivalent road tax somehow, so lets do it all at once upfront and ignore any of the equity talk about turning a pay-as-you-go into a massive flat upfront fee because only libtards care about equity." Other states say "alright alright, we can split this registration fee into 4 quarterly installments" and they deal with the extra paperwork of now "keeping your registration up to date" is much more complicated. No sympathies for Orwellian government-must-observe-your-odometer all the time, but I also see how it's a bureaucracy that was built around one system that worked ok struggling to adapt to a new technology.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    >Well, if you're in a state that thinks EV's are woke propaganda The opposite is true. Washington state has the highest EV registration fee in the nation and the governor ran on a platform of climate change.
  - judge2020 2y ago
    Or they can just do what Georgia does and charge an insane yearly fee from non-gas vehicles. GA charges 29.10 cent gas tax, and my Model Y "Alternative Fuel Vehicle Fee" is $210 yearly. I would need to buy an equivalent 721 gallons of gas yearly to match that fee, which is over 20k miles a year on a gas car (assuming 30mpg).
  - sircastor 2y ago
    It gets weirder. In my state (Oregon) it's not even the government that is gathering the data, it's a third party that's authorized by the government. I assume the government gets that data, but I also assume that the 3rd party is happily allowed to correlated and package the data to sell how it sees it (that may not be fair, but there were no explicit statements of privacy safety on the sites...) There are 3 companies that do it. Only one of them will do a non-GPS-based system, but it still requires a dongle plugged in and is limited to a small set of vehicles. I'm not really sure why. To further complicate things, do I choose the Insurance dongle to save money on insurance, or the EV registration dongle, to save money on vehicle registration? AFAICT, they don't stack.
  - woleium 2y ago
    Can’t we just tax tyres instead of gas?
- jorts 2y ago
  My insurance just asks me for a picture of my odometer once a year.
jabart 2y ago
Odometer scams were a big thing before it was digital and I'm sure someone has a mod-chip style thing for EV cars if there is money involved. Also solves issues of if you sell the car, car gets totaled, stolen, etc, they will still know. It could also enable monthly registrations fees which may be better for some people than a $600+ once a year vs $50/mo if it's all electronic.
- serf 2y ago
  there is nothing in place that prohibits that form of monthly registration that a plug-in dongle is going to provide.
- oceanplexian 2y ago
  If there's a mod chip why wouldn't you just modify the OBD tracking device? You can wire up a complete simulated OBD interface with a microcontroller and don't even need a car attached to it.
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    If it validates against an accelerometer, you’re going to find it difficult. But could possibly put the OBD thingamajig in grandma’s Corolla but MiTM your Ferrari’s VIN to it.
roland35 2y ago
There has to be a better way to tax road usage. I pay extra for my EV as well, but I suppose the state’s argument is that the odometer reading could include mileage in other states. But that would still benefit your home state… so I don’t know. My state requires a check for all vehicles older than 4 years which includes a obd2 scan, so they probably already have this data
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  They should go after SUVs. They weigh as much (or more), use far more gas, obliterate anything they crash into (smaller cars and pedestrians), and they get a fucking IRS tax deduction.
  - rokkitmensch 2y ago
    Doubly for EV SUVs.
    - Scoundreller 2y ago
      New York State gives EVs and plugin EVs discounts on tolls (and maybe reg fees), but looking at the list, some of the SUVs have an eMPG in the 40s. Meanwhile your non-plugin Corolla Hybrid, doesn’t get a discount, gets a 50mpg mileage. And those plugin SUVs can drop to under 25mpg (some under 20!) if you don’t plug them in. https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Programs/Drive-Clean-Rebate-For-Electric-Cars-Program/How-it-Works/Eligible-Models https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Programs/Drive-Clean-Rebate-F... https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2023&year2=2024&make=Toyota&baseModel=Corolla&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform... https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2023&year2=2024&make=Porsche&baseModel=Cayenne&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform...
  - abfan1127 2y ago
    you know most SUVs are really sedans with tall cabins? All crossovers are sedan unibody chassis. Here is a list of truck SUVs, which have actual frames. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/which-2022-suvs-built-on-truck-chassis/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/which-2022-suvs-built-on-truck-...

zbrozek 2y ago

I have yet to hear a good explanation of why the odometer isn't sufficient. Either the cost to manually read is outrageous or there's nefarious secondary purpose.

floatrock 2y ago
Any schlub can slip the tech at your autoshop a $20 to misread the odometer. Need more work to fake a digital reading. This is all around the bigger issue here is how we fund road work: often it's done with a state tax on gasoline sales, so the more you use the roads the more you pay for them. Worked great, reasonably fair, even somewhat punished heavier vehicles (road wear is something more-than-linear to weight, and heavier cars generally need more gas). And then those pesky non-gas electrics came onto the scene. So you now you have a system and a bureaucracy funded by a not-terrible pay-as-you-go tax, and suddenly lots of users don't need the thing your taxing. What's a bureaucracy to do? Well, if you're in a state that thinks EV's are woke propaganda and an existential threat to your truck-based manliness, simple: you charge absurd annual registration fees and say "well, we gotta get the equivalent road tax somehow, so lets do it all at once upfront and ignore any of the equity talk about turning a pay-as-you-go into a massive flat upfront fee because only libtards care about equity." Other states say "alright alright, we can split this registration fee into 4 quarterly installments" and they deal with the extra paperwork of now "keeping your registration up to date" is much more complicated. No sympathies for Orwellian government-must-observe-your-odometer all the time, but I also see how it's a bureaucracy that was built around one system that worked ok struggling to adapt to a new technology.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  >Well, if you're in a state that thinks EV's are woke propaganda The opposite is true. Washington state has the highest EV registration fee in the nation and the governor ran on a platform of climate change.
- judge2020 2y ago
  Or they can just do what Georgia does and charge an insane yearly fee from non-gas vehicles. GA charges 29.10 cent gas tax, and my Model Y "Alternative Fuel Vehicle Fee" is $210 yearly. I would need to buy an equivalent 721 gallons of gas yearly to match that fee, which is over 20k miles a year on a gas car (assuming 30mpg).
- sircastor 2y ago
  It gets weirder. In my state (Oregon) it's not even the government that is gathering the data, it's a third party that's authorized by the government. I assume the government gets that data, but I also assume that the 3rd party is happily allowed to correlated and package the data to sell how it sees it (that may not be fair, but there were no explicit statements of privacy safety on the sites...) There are 3 companies that do it. Only one of them will do a non-GPS-based system, but it still requires a dongle plugged in and is limited to a small set of vehicles. I'm not really sure why. To further complicate things, do I choose the Insurance dongle to save money on insurance, or the EV registration dongle, to save money on vehicle registration? AFAICT, they don't stack.
- woleium 2y ago
  Can’t we just tax tyres instead of gas?
jorts 2y ago
My insurance just asks me for a picture of my odometer once a year.

jabart 2y ago

Odometer scams were a big thing before it was digital and I'm sure someone has a mod-chip style thing for EV cars if there is money involved. Also solves issues of if you sell the car, car gets totaled, stolen, etc, they will still know. It could also enable monthly registrations fees which may be better for some people than a $600+ once a year vs $50/mo if it's all electronic.

serf 2y ago
there is nothing in place that prohibits that form of monthly registration that a plug-in dongle is going to provide.
oceanplexian 2y ago
If there's a mod chip why wouldn't you just modify the OBD tracking device? You can wire up a complete simulated OBD interface with a microcontroller and don't even need a car attached to it.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  If it validates against an accelerometer, you’re going to find it difficult. But could possibly put the OBD thingamajig in grandma’s Corolla but MiTM your Ferrari’s VIN to it.

roland35 2y ago

There has to be a better way to tax road usage. I pay extra for my EV as well, but I suppose the state’s argument is that the odometer reading could include mileage in other states. But that would still benefit your home state… so I don’t know. My state requires a check for all vehicles older than 4 years which includes a obd2 scan, so they probably already have this data

Workaccount2 2y ago
They should go after SUVs. They weigh as much (or more), use far more gas, obliterate anything they crash into (smaller cars and pedestrians), and they get a fucking IRS tax deduction.
- rokkitmensch 2y ago
  Doubly for EV SUVs.
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    New York State gives EVs and plugin EVs discounts on tolls (and maybe reg fees), but looking at the list, some of the SUVs have an eMPG in the 40s. Meanwhile your non-plugin Corolla Hybrid, doesn’t get a discount, gets a 50mpg mileage. And those plugin SUVs can drop to under 25mpg (some under 20!) if you don’t plug them in. https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Programs/Drive-Clean-Rebate-For-Electric-Cars-Program/How-it-Works/Eligible-Models https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/All-Programs/Drive-Clean-Rebate-F... https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2023&year2=2024&make=Toyota&baseModel=Corolla&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform... https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2023&year2=2024&make=Porsche&baseModel=Cayenne&srchtyp=ymm&pageno=1&rowLimit=50 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform...
- abfan1127 2y ago
  you know most SUVs are really sedans with tall cabins? All crossovers are sedan unibody chassis. Here is a list of truck SUVs, which have actual frames. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/which-2022-suvs-built-on-truck-chassis/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/which-2022-suvs-built-on-truck-...